Path: ultra.sonic.net!news
From: i@no.self (!)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.philosophy.zen,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.zen
Subject: Zen Beyond Buddhism (was Rafts and other Metaphors)
Date: 7 Oct 1999 02:03:00 -0700
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Lisa:
|# Is zen really a form of Buddhism, or is it an entity in its own right?  

zenna/channa/dhyana makes its appearance in Indian culture and then
 seeps through Chinese and Japanese variations. it therefore has
 many faces, and typically manifests as a type of Buddhism for
 the seriously interested

|# My understanding is that there are two variations of zen,
|# one being more buddhism-oriented and one more tao-oriented (ch'an.)

as dhyana enters China it begins to integrate taoist elements.
 whereas India would not let Buddhism survive, China assimilates
 it to its tripartite meld (Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism) and
 no tradition (not even the indigenous precursors) can get away
 without being transformed

nedludd@ix.netcom.com(Ned Ludd):
| ...Zen Buddhism is a form of Buddhism.  Zen (without the 
| 'Buddhism' appended) is a fusion of Taoism and Buddhism.  

carried by the small vehicle of Buddhism, the tiny dhyana seeks
 shelter in the Kun Lun mountains meditating against a cliff
 face for 9 years with Bodhidharma. here it meets up with an
 old taoist hermit who infuses it with a love of falling
 leaves and abandons much of its cosmology. the tiny ch'anna
 takes up dwelling in a cave and cuts off its legs, where its
 children must continue the journey to the Sunrise Land
 without it, to become the expositors of multiple zennae

| If this group [alt.zen] were about Zen Buddhism it would be 
| called alt.buddhism.zen (or perhaps alt.religion.zen),
| but it is not.

zen may be translated as 'absorption' or 'dedicated attention'

alt.zen is an asynchronous internet forum in which semblances
 of meditation may be facetiously or symbolically presented
 amidst a tumult of restless philosophers and socialites.
 occasionally truly attentive individuals participate and
 demonstrate the spirit of the practice, but this is unusual

| [An] example of a Zen master who did not take Buddhist vows,
| Buddhist ordination, live in Buddhist temples, or shave his
| head is the 8th century Chinese hermit-poet Han Shan.  Han
| Shan was half Taoist and half Buddhist (and equally critical
| of both).  His is fervently claimed as a Buddhist by Zen
| Buddhists and as a Taoist by Taoists.
|
| There is a small faction here who wish to assert that Zen is
| ONLY Buddhist.  Naturally, they should find an appropriately
| named group (like the two mentioned above) to spew their 
| limited and reactionary views, and not waste their time here.

best sought in alt.philosophy.zen, where discussion of ideas
 is not an interference with discipline and practice that may
 result in satori or shibumi or fellini or other weirdnesses
-- 
http://www.luckymojo.com/magi/  ; http://www.satanservice.org/
http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html
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