Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.philosophy.zen,alt.religion.buddhism,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.zen Subject: Re: No-Self and Buddhism References: <3C711FEB.39239EEC@playground.net> <3C7132E2.E4490061@playground.net> <8b7bece8.0202181845.780617a3@posting.google.com> <2d4af1c1.0202182234.43c20adc@posting.google.com> <3C727400.1AEECFA2@playground.net> <4de43a3.0202201950.23c6b658@posting.google.com> <3c774fe9$0$6353@echo-01.iinet.net.au> <4de43a3.0202241915.55148722@posting.google.com> <3c79f7e7$0$11663@echo-01.iinet.net.au> From: i@no.self (!) Reply-To: spam@yronwode.com User-Agent: nn/6.6.0 Lines: 81 Message-ID: <3sej8.3165$44.23565@typhoon.sonic.net> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:18:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1015903103 208.201.242.18 (Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:18:23 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:18:23 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:31223 alt.philosophy.zen:87570 alt.buddha.short.fat.guy:186105 talk.religion.buddhism:205916 alt.zen:288457 "David" : |#> In relation to the comparison of the 2 religions Hindu and Buddhism is this |#> where 'non self' was introduced. My understanding of non self was for the |#> other religions in India at the time, now defined as Hindu, and their belief |#> that more than just kamma was transfered duringtheir rebirth. So to |#> differentiate between the two, nonself was introduced. Hence in Buddhism it |#> is only the kamma, not spirit caste etc. "Angelo" wrote in message |# Yes this is I think what happened. Partly Anatman (no-soul) was |# introduced to specifically repudiate the Upanishadic tradition of |# Atman having a permanent essential nature (identical with Brahma). |# |# However it also those of us that have grown up in a Christian |# influenced society which also believes in a soul. "David" : | Is this to be let go of? Is this an attachment on *I,me,my*? yes | Personally if I go, sobeit, my soul was attached to my shoe and can remain | there:-p apparently this means you've realized the conditional reality of that so many like to identify as a central identity | Just my kamma account will remain open for the next life (describing it | this way is also an attachment). karma as an adhesion dissappears except socially when examined critically, just as the notion of an atman vaporizes with any consistent attention | That's why I try to assist others rather than just look after myself | (a norm of todays society). convention. self-interest; being helpful to get karma-points | Respectively the first will help my kamma account the later my bank account | but would not be any use next life around. karma account -- variables on how to close it; some suggest that a Zero Sum balance is needed = 0 with no positive or negative karma; some suggest that you need a positive balance; some say that karma is not the determining factor bank account -- this pertains only to your range of dominion | Maybe if our fear is - what about my soul? Why not concider the kamma | account instead. What is the difference? the difference is that the soul is continual identity | If with Christianity, would the kamma be satisfactory for judgement (is that | why hell is envisaged with red). a very good question; typically the karma would have to be tallied by the Cosmic God in order to have any bearing on the Judgment | Is the soul to focus on *your* only life, hence the need for part of | *you* to go the heaven with *your* kamma? quite correct | Personally if you can go to heaven/hell after death, how can you not then be | reincarnated. Is this a reincarnation anyway? no, because the idea is that the meat-body is left behind, or transmuted into the heavenly realm ('ascended bodily', as special legendary persons) and changed into some 'perfect' substance | In the bible others are writting *their* version of an occurence, the | Dhamma is a quote of what was said by Buddha or other monks at a site. too simplistic. suffice it to say that religious tracts are unreliable | By having people write their version is this tainted by their *self* and transmitted through a tradition this taints it by virtue of some kind of reputation to uphold (school's authority, master's level, etc.)