Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (mu) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.zen,alt.religion.buddhism,alt.philosophy.zen,alt.consciousness.mysticism,alt.philosophy.taoism Subject: Instruction of the Middle Way (was Tao and Zen the same?) Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 86 Sender: yronwode@sonic.net Message-ID: <8t3lbf$cp4@bolt.sonic.net> References: <39D40309.D1616A81@dingoblue.com.au> <17221-39D5094E-2@storefull-171.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <39D550E7.976FD957@oakweb.com> <39D6C8B6.2C91412C@tm.net.my> <39D7BB60.40BC6734@jkl.org> Reply-To: spam@luckymojo.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.4 (NOV) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:33:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.224.36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 972379992 208.201.224.36 (Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:33:12 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:33:12 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:25791 talk.religion.buddhism:139929 alt.zen:196908 alt.philosophy.zen:49947 alt.consciousness.mysticism:44540 alt.philosophy.taoism:79912 50001024 Vom mahja-urana : | was wondering why once people 'attain', they only teach inner/outer | instead of both? problem begins with social authority systems. groups define power and legitimate instructional value. those outside of structure are given less attention, seen as covert, overlooked for wisdom source structure seeks formal method, stability of authority and system, assignation of successful mystical development, testing for the outer form selects for appearance-basis. one-on-one attention yields discernment of inner condition, insight as to state of pupil. frenetic structure disrupts insight. personal relations inspire selection of condition-basis | are you sure that the dif between taoism/buddhism isn't just | a common taoist prejudice? not a Buddhist prejudice? ask the Buddha what is the Way. find the Tao and wake up | seems that the buddha knew both inner and outer when he made | the 'noble truths'(i think thas what it is?). the Four Nobles > he first says 1. all is sorrow, First Noble Truth: spiritual discomposure is a condition of all sentience | then paradox's himself and states that the cause of sorrow is | desire (cause of loss is gain? or of outer/inner..?) Second Noble Truth: the cause of this spiritual discomposure is craving after more of what has passed; a return to some known previous state of being; a correlation or apparent coincidence of previously perceived qualities or objects | looks almost like they concentrate on sorrow being the 'all', | and after a while can't help but admit even the dualty of that? Third Noble Truth: the craving may be ended; this condition is called 'nirvana' (extinguishment of craving like a candle flame) | i heard once that after buddha reached full attainment is when he | added the second 'truth', and told them to leave the first when | he was asked what to do? the better stories have Gautama providing the four noble truths as a composite like a doctor giving prognosis; assessment of the cause of the condition; determination of potential for healing; and the prescription for the remedy, or treatment Fourth Noble Truth: the eightfold path will lead to the extinction of craving the eightfold path is a formula for success, variables provided structure by social organizations ("good", "bad"). individual instructors analyze the aspirant and assist them to develop their own "combination solution" for the formula, outside tradition the 8-folds or 'right factors' are (the term 'right' is a pragmatic descriptor, not a moral invective as I understand it): 1) right understanding 2) right thought 3) right speech 4) right action 5) right livelihood 6) right effort 7) right mindfulness 8) right concentration thus the 'right' combination of these is that which leads toward awakening, a lessening of craving and dissatisfaction. careful self-observation is the criteria by which this process of waking is perfected mu -- FREE HOODOO CATALOGUE! send street address to: catalogue@luckymojo.com mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html ; mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/ emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired