To: alt.zen
From: ! 
Subject: Judgement and Zen (Was Re: masturbation zen) (judgement!)
Date: 49940825
Quoting: unknown

darn.  I thought perhaps that someone would begin describing how they
 mixed masturbation and zazen.  such is closer to my own ritual, though
 the questions below are probably more important to traditional Zenners.

|But what is this newgroup about? 

alt.zen is about zen

|Is it Zen? 

perhaps, yet it may be more 'about zen'

|I was taught that Zen is humble. 

how are we to assess humility?

|Most of the postings here seem clever. Word plays. Word
|games. Gotchas. Is this the price we pay for sitting?

maybe so.
again, it could be that those who post here don't sit
there is a type of exchange in Zen Buddhism called 'mondo'
 and I think it has been reserved by the fundamentalists for Masters only.
perhaps this is what is going on here - people aspiring to mastery

|There are so many practical things we could coach each other on:
|what do you do when your legs fall asleep? 

see the meditation.faq.  there are occasional posts on this subject.
remember, not everyone thinks of zen as a pretzel-bodied mind-blanking
 sesshin.

|How do you fight judgement - of yourself and others? 

wonderful questions!
there are several ways to deal with judgement

1) avoid it - pretend it doesn't exist
	this really only works with others and only in certain situations
2) reject it - cast it away from you
	again, unless adept, this doesn't work for the self-criticism
3) combat it - fight it, as you say above
	this can be very wonderful in that we excise it in a
	sort of 'exorcism of the mind'.  those with a strong
	will can get far using this method, yet then there
	will develop the problem of beginning to turn the
	exorcism upon those within our mindspace who have
	the same difficulty (within themselves and toward others).

	this problem is the fundamentalist trap, so displayed
	against all the wicked free-thinking individualists who
	challenge social norms with their id-energies: Mara the
	Evil Tempter, Maya the Illusionist, Satan the Deceiver,
	Iblis the Djinn Who Would Not Bow, etc.  

	the fanatics seek to cast out these Nasties, yet never
	is there a way to do it, for the cosmos are an inter-
	twined network and they just keep coming back.

	the same will happen to us when we seek to combat and
	cast out (of the newsgroup, of our lives, etc.) the
	offenders who criticize and judge us.  in attempting
	to fight them we begin to use the same tools which
	they are using to assault us.  indeed, it may be said
	that judgement merely perpetuates itself and that the
	fourth alternative is the only lasting solution.

4) accepting it - watch it and do not attach oneself to it
	this includes within us.  as we watch it we will
	begin to understand more about how it comes about,
	where it arises (in what situations), what this
	arising means for our kin who evince it, and how
	best to accept it in ourselves and others.  this is
	not the same as ignoring it and pretending it will
	go away.  sometimes it takes grappling with it
	before we can be able to take a step away from it.

	accepting it, we begin to see that the target is not
	anything which we are.  as we look inward and notice
	that we are not the target, so we are able to see the
	the source of that judgement and deal with it directly
	without letting the expression of judgement get in the
	way of our dharma.

|How do you take "Is that so?" to work. 

words are effective in different ways at different times
perhaps in one context 'Is that so?' will be only a witty repartee
 without significance, while in another it may catalyze a very
 important communication.

|How do you have a zen fight with your significant other? 

there is no such thing as a 'zen fight'
mondo may indeed be engaged with one's SO, yet as it involves a
 high degree of detachment/nonattachment on both parts, usually
 this doesn't work as well as with one who is further from the Heart

|What do you think of "Thank You and OK!?"

sometimes these are very wonderful approbations and warm expressions
at others can be mere avoidance of true feelings and accession to
 others where it is not felt

context says much about meaning

|Anybody interested?

remember: there are always killfiles :>