From tyagi@bjt.net Wed Dec 18 07:10:10 1996 Return-Path: tyagi@bjt.net Received: from kudonet.com (kudonet.com [165.227.52.1]) by bitsy.hollyfeld.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA23588 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 07:10:07 -0500 Received: by kudonet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id CAA24166; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 02:59:31 -0800 Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 02:59:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199612181059.CAA24166@kudonet.com> To: tyagi@hollyfeld.org Subject: Avidhyana/Dozen/Not/mahayana.! From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Status: O >Path: kudonet.com!kudo!tyagi >From: ! >Newsgroups: alt.zen,alt.philosophy.zen,alt.magick.tyagi >Subject: ch'an and mahayana (was 'Final Question') >Date: 17 Dec 1996 23:59:00 -0800 >Organization: KudoNet On-Line Services >Lines: 15 >Sender: tyagi@bjt.net >Message-ID: >References: >NNTP-Posting-Host: kudo.kudonet.com >Xref: kudonet.com alt.zen:38115 alt.philosophy.zen:8910 alt.magick.tyagi:8449 "James R. GEIER" relates a question from his final: # "Is Ch'an-Zen a school which faithfully adheres to Mahayana tradition or # is it a completely new school of Chinese thought? Mahayana tradition tends to incorporate certain qualitative particulars, such as the presumption of nirvana as a group-endeavor, the notion of 'bodhisattvas' (fashioned after 'ar(a)hats'), sunyata/emptiness, etc. ch'an is most often known for its abolition of disputation and theory in the support of its major discipline -> 'sitting' for this reason there is justification for the supposition that ch'an is a major departure from Mahayana tradition and constitutes a new school of thought, at times integrating the vaguery and mysticism of taoism with the meditative repose of the Indian dhyana original