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From: I@no.self (!)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.zen,alt.philosophy.zen,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.skeptic
Subject: Siddhis and Demonstrations (was Re: Zen, Orientation and Buddhism)
Date: 2 Aug 1997 13:48:43 -0700
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Evelyn:
#>#> If a person has any unusual abilities, they usually have also 
#>#> developed spiritually to a point where demonstrating them in 
#>#> a sense of "proof" to anyone, is out of the question, since 
#>#> their ego no longer requires such reinforcement.

Daryl <daryl@interlog.comm>:
#># Why not demonstrate them out of compassion rather than ego-reinforcement?

because, being 'spiritual', they will not satisfy material demonstration
 criteria.  they are experiences, not physical abilities.  only the
 deluded take siddhis for *magical or psychic* (in the sense of 
 'supernatural') powers

sinboy@netcom.com (Joshua Jasper)...
#> As I stated before, there are several skeptic groups offering a 
#> reward for the verifiable demonstration of psychic powers, those sums of 
#> money could go along way towards charity. These people haven't come 
#> foward because thy're either deluded, or lying. Alot of the liars who 
#> have come foward have gotten debunked rather handily.

some are self-deluded, some are merely liars.  those who understand the
 siddhis for what they are (very valuable) often prefer to let them
 remain secrets rather than try to engage the materialism-based debunkers

daryl@interlog.comm (Daryl):
# the leap to "all deluded or liars" doesn't necessarily follow.

agreed

# If *I* were in possession of such powers a sceptics group
# would be the last place I'd go to demonstrate them.  Vested
# interests don't make for good science, on either side of
# the issue.

on the contrary, one would do a supreme service to scientific standards
 to come forward and have delusions or subjective phenomena tested 
 against objective standards.  of course they will not be understood,
 but at least the charlatans would lose face.  the master could then
 instruct the debunkers that they were after the wrong tiger and
 continue in the waking work