Path: Supernews69!kudonet.com!not-for-mail From: I@no.self (!) Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.zen,alt.zen,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.buddhism,talk.religion.buddhism,talk.religion.misc,alt.christnet Subject: Christian Zen and Templates (was Re: ...Influences on Zen?? ...) Date: 23 Jun 1997 09:20:42 -0700 Organization: KudoNet On-Line Services Lines: 56 Sender: tyagi@bjt.net Message-ID: <5om7oq$srg@kudo20.kudonet.com> References: <01bc7584$98049020$LocalHost@default> <5nq063$422@kudo20.kudonet.com> <33A0DE05.616A@mindspring.com> <33A7BD3D.1E74@digmo.org> <5ola9q$mf8@kudo20.kudonet.com> <33AE6315.564D@digmo.org> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (!) NNTP-Posting-Host: kudo20.kudonet.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Xref: Supernews69 alt.philosophy.zen:15343 alt.zen:64841 alt.magick.tyagi:13094 alt.religion.buddhism:909 talk.religion.buddhism:37490 talk.religion.misc:299396 alt.christnet:265180 Old Freedom Monastery : #># japanese zen includes elements of bushido( warrior code) that seem to be #># missing from chinese Ch'an. and personally I have always been a little #># suspicious of chrisitan zen as mere clinging. !: #> not so much 'mere clinging' (though it does allow this, as to a hand of #> the parental tradition), but a safer and more culturally-based course Old Freedom Monastery : # ...I looked for a more'creative'apprach than the problems that # christinity would bring to western zen. there are may ways to # fill the gaps in the zen holes, since to my way of thinking, # xanity brings more problems than solutions. they are not 'zen holes' so much as generalities which must be particularized. Christianity brings no more problems than any other religion # it is very hard to separate, for instance, money theology from modern xanity. on the contrary, the true Christian monk takes a vow of poverty and dedicates his life to the protection and support of those who cannot do so themselves (the infirm, weak, children, elderly, etc.) # ...the whole sin concept would have to be avoided, original or not, and # many of the so called essential elements of xanity. no reason for this. sin is a valuable moral guideline which can be personalized into a deliberate independent application ('missing the mark'). 'essential elements of Christianity' are typically theological and cosmological beliefs, which could be adopted with respect to absorption in the perfect and crucified moment or left by the wayside, or integrated per any other descriptor # it might less of a problem to write a set of instructions on how to # develop a personal moral code, or simply learn to live without one. in the case of instructions this is not the kind of cultural and systematic unfolding of the 8fold Path that a religion can bring. in the case of a personal moral code or living without one this returns to buji zen # after all if there is no self, there is no need for a personal moral code. this is an overstatement. some feel a deep need for such a code. the Buddha is said to have instructed that 'right speech', 'right action' and 'right livelihood' are three important areas of fixation for the movement into nirvana. these are formulae for moral parameters which can be established by any religious system. in effect, the 8fold Path is a set of instructions (really a template) for personal and social moral decisions which must be made in the construction of any life-path or the living out of a personal journey it is this reason that the religion of Buddhism goes beyond the 8fold Path and instructs on the life of the Buddha, the particular instructions on the Dharma, and the specifics of the Sangha. these are variations on a theme which is a generic lattice for religious meme-delivery (e.g. Christ, the Word, and the Church)