Path: kudonet.com!kudo20!tyagi From: ! Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.zen,alt.philosophy.zen,alt.religion.buddhism,talk.religion.buddhism Subject: What is a Zen Center? (was Re: Zen Centers?) Date: 24 Mar 1997 14:13:51 -0800 Organization: KudoNet On-Line Services Lines: 170 Sender: tyagi@bjt.net Message-ID: References: <33300359.1C7C@sprynet.com> <33336C4B.42C7@idt.net> <33391961.25885864@nntp.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (!) NNTP-Posting-Host: kudo20.kudonet.com Xref: kudonet.com alt.magick.tyagi:8898 alt.zen:40879 alt.philosophy.zen:9778 talk.religion.buddhism:29192 Lans: >}> can tell this poor fool what a "Zen Center" actually is. Is it the >}> equivilent of a Zen church? What actually occurs at them? Etc.. >}> Is this the place I want to find locally to learn more about Zen >}> or are these monastaries, private places for a select group? weaseltrax@earthlink.net.x-this (Weasel Tracks): >Zen centers come in a variety of forms, but they are all simply places for >Zen Buddhists to come together for common practice. contrast this with a more esoteric and expansive instruction that a 'zen center' is a place which emanates a process of absorption (zen). in this sense so-called 'Zen Buddhists' may or may not congregate at a zen center. it may be a congregation for sufis, christians, butchers, ladybugs or seagulls >Most have one teacher or more associated with them, but some have none. to continue with this contrast, the role of a 'teacher' is strictly a social convention, delegated to a source of great inspiration. this is sometimes stabilized within human communities. more often than not a teacher can be found in less anthropocentric environs: clouds, streams, trees, fields, beaches, and other Bastions of Mara >There is no criteria for attending public functions at them but >interest and respect. Membership in a center may require dues, but >there is usually no charge for public services. Some centers have >monasteries associated with them (or vice versa) for vowed monks >and nuns and for laypeople in intensive practice. unlike the conventional Zen Center identification, the true zen center changes location and configuration of manifestation. in accordance with the interdependent and impermanent transfiguration of all things said to have been instructed by Gautama Buddha, so the zen center realizes its nature in the midst of the town square, shifts to the top of a building, mountain, tree, the bottom of a well, and into your bedroom at a moment's notice. subtle sensitivity allows a kind of temporary membership which may at any moment be revoked until and unless the 8-fold path to Nirvana is firmly tread >A typical scheduled service consists of chanting (almost always at least >the Heart Sutra), incense offering, and periods of sitting meditation, >often with a talk on Buddhist practice and doctrine. the chanting of insects, birds and wind is key to some zen centers, as is the chanting of children at play, or automobiles zipping through their girdered stone alleyways. the Heart (of Wisdom; note how human impatience over time abbreviates at expense of that which it purports to convey) Sutra is acknowledged by some to be a goddess, others a bodhisattva, and still others a profound revelation of the nagas to a ripened dedicant offering of exhalation, focussed breathing and concentration on the Way may yield awakened discussion and practice better than any formal instruction or artifice (called "Buddhism" or no), though the Tradition of Convenience is regarded with some familiarity and humor >It's simple to go and just join a service, although they can be >uncomfortable if you aren't used to sitting meditation. You can request a >chair in most centers, but the boredom many people experience before they >acquire meditation experience can be grueling. Thus some centers have >special beginners' services with shorter meditation periods. boredom is a function of attachment to being entertained. quieting to the nature of everyday life can be accomplished by less extreme measures than the kind of 'cold turkey' methods disguised as 'zazen' by the fanatics of conventional Zenna. discovering the zen center in one's own life allows a severing of addiction to being provided with the Source of Absorption, and the disconnection of location with the experience of that absorption enables the transition to mastery for some much more quickly than a rigorous or encapsulated striving against adopted norms >People are generally friendly and willing to answer questions. herein lies the benefit (friendly) and the trap (answers) Ardent: >} According to Professor Richard Hayes of Buddha-L they are >} centers for dysfunctional persons - what I like to term Zen >} out-patient clinics. they can become this yes, though it will be disguised as a Solution >} If you want to see what one is like via the Net I have heard >} from Mark Vetanen that Universal Zendo is a fair example of >} such a Zen center. >Zen centers and electronic mailing lists are apples and oranges. both are fruits. both grow on trees. both often contain seeds of their reproduction. the electronic medium is conducive to certain forms of absorption, yet it has its own set of challenges and traps. ignoring the fact that both have these doesn't make one more attractive than the other. the buddha-nature makes several successful approaches possible >One is a physical place and building around which a group functions. the conventional Zen Center is so, yes. the esoteric contrast to this as I have expressed it above, however, is not necessarily a stable physical place or building. note how similar the process is between the construction of a Center and the projection of an Ego or Persona. both are valuable impermances which yield social results concealing potentially liberative disciplines comparable in their stability and problems to texts >The other is a virtual community most of whose members have never >seen each other, and whose interactions are confined to words seen >on a screen. the depth of zen via computer is seldom truly understood. while it is true that the medium and interaction level are necessarily different, this says nothing about its potential, given sincere and consistent reflection and communication, for awakening, or for the functioning as a zen center >Speaking of dysfunctional, I would not trust Ardent's opinion on >this. He is not able to communicate in a normal way. let us not throw stones in glass houses. I think I can understand Ardent's words you have quoted here. if you insist on warning us about Ardent's methods of communication, please be more clear about the dangers (it appears that you do this more concisely below, thank you) >} A listserv (I assume), however, I have no idea how to subscribe >} to it. But some here, I understand, belong to it. They might help you. [personal enmities omitted as unworthy of my address] >Master Zenmar came onto the Universal Zendo list this past week and worked >his usual charm. He managed to alienate most of the list in a very short >time. Within days, one of the moderators had enough and unsubscribed him. >Obviously, he is now taking potshots at the UZendo list. the chemistry of a social group can be severely disrupted by a guerilla or by a zen master. discerning the substance behind the disruption is at times best done by the individual or at least examined in some depth so as to comprehend the true problem and where it may lie. conventional "peace = status quo" suppositions are lost on the awakened, however. some will use 'crazy wisdom' or 'explosive tactics' in their exchanges >Ardent/Dhyanasamudra/Zenmar has a history of pushing people's buttons in >supposed debate in such a way as to infuriate them, and then claim that >such fury is an obvious sign of mental illness and ignorance. A search of >the usenet through DejaNews for these names will educate anyone interested >in this most interesting man. thank you for the more thorough warning. this is something we can use to evaluate our *own* interactions with this individual. from there we are best to avoid condemnation and epithets >} Briefly, there are two kinds of Zen teachings going on in >} Amerika. One is the popular _Zen and the Art of Motorcycle >} Maintenance_ kind and the other is traditional. How to tell >} them apart involves a lot of detective work because many >} teachers are just bullshit artists offering an easy path to >} Buddhahood in a few years (to get your ready cash). >All it takes is to see for what and how much a center charges. >Reputable centers and teachers ask for far less for retreats >than similar functions at, say, New Age centers. I'm inclined to agree with BOTH of these assessments, yet suggest that rather than look to the earth element ($) for discernment about wakening substance (!) that the traditional instructions of Gautama be put into practice -- test that which teachers give you against your experience and that which you have otherwise acquired. trust no one and keep your laser (skepticism) handy