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Newsgroups: alt.zen,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.buddhism,alt.meditation,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.consciousness.mysticism
Subject: Re: Silencing the Mind (was Re: Silence of the mind)
Date: 7 May 1997 13:47:36 -0700
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nedludd@ix.netcom.com (Ned Ludd):
#>#>"Learned audience, some teachers of meditation instruct their
#>#> disciples to keep a watch on their mind for tranquillity, so that
#>#> it will cease from activity.  Henceforth the disciples give up all
#>#> exertion of mind.  Ignorant persons become insane from having too
#>#> much confidence in such instruction.  Such cases are not rare, and
#>#> it is a great mistake to teach others to do this."

dediu@webbnet.com (Michael):
#Just you try your tranquility business and see how many seconds 
#you can last.

duration is a distracting measure of results

#># applied dualistic effort fractures the mind.
#>
#>   Well, here's a dualism:
#>
#>     1. I am meditating.
#>     2. I am not meditating.
#>   Heh?

settling into sand, there is me and there is the beach.  over time,
 being still, suddenly there is only beach sand

#Dualism is in the eye of the beholder.  No dualism can exist in the
#stopped mind.

dualism is in the mind of the beholder.  minds cannot be stopped,
 they can only become more tranquil through rest, relaxation, and
 careful hurdles

#>   Exertion is a debauch of the mind.

#Mind the exertion of a debauch.

having plucked out splinters with a stick, throw away the stick

#...you should shut-up with your recommendations.  You are an lying fraud.

the mouth opens, the mind becomes wild

#># meditation is always beneficial

#> ...there must be SOME situation, however obscure, in which 
#> meditation is detrimental?

if by meditation one means 'concerted focus upon a single object',
 then there are indeed times when this can be detrimental.  if
 one means by meditation 'exertion of the mind', then there is
 always something safe, even if it merely amounts to reflecting 
 upon the present moment in some fashion

#You give me an example.  You've made the claim that it can be
#dangerous.  Support it or withdraw it.

ho!  ha!  parry!  dodge!  thrust!   BOINK!@$#&*

#># the danger, to the 6th, is "giving up exertions of the mind",
#># especially so as to produce the result of no thought.

#Excellent interpretation....  How come you don't contribute to alt.zen?

there is no 'me' to offer contribution

#>  And for Jesus, the only appropriate test is execution.

#When is your suicide scheduled Ned?

SAVE THE PLANET, KILL YOURSELF!!!!

#># goal and method, the one yields the other, it does not necessarily
#># resemble it except in termination

#>   Then not-seeking should yield no-thought.

#Not-seeking IS no-thought.  No should, no yield.

sounds so easy