Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.religion.buddhism,talk.religion.newage Followup-To: alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.religion.buddhism,talk.religion.newage Subject: Experiential Heaven, NOT Self-Sacrifice References: <3Xk5a.67637$Ik.2921844@typhoon.sonic.net> From: satanservice.org@boboroshi (SOD of the CoE) Reply-To: satanservice.org@boboroshi User-Agent: nn/6.6.0 Lines: 84 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 06:42:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1045896140 208.201.242.18 (Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:42:20 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:42:20 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.satanism:223620 alt.magick.tyagi:37197 talk.religion.buddhism:255656 talk.religion.newage:159608 50030221 VII Hail Satan! "Krag" : >>> Christ is on the Right-hand of God >>> The Goddess is on the Left-hand of God. roshibobo: >> Satan is the Middle path of Self. "Krag" : >So is Buddhism no, Buddhism is the Middle Path of the No-Self. the Buddhism I find convincing is not hung up on fantasies of some kind of essential spirit or soul, instead opposing the notion of what it has called 'the atman' in its principle instructions ('anatman', contrariwise to Indian soul ideas of atman-brahman). >>> The Right-hand path ascends to heaven >>> The Left-hand path descends to hell (reincarnation in matter) >> >> The Middle path remains centered on the only reality. > > What's the only reality? the one in which heaven and hell are fictions. >>> But ultimately, the way down is also the way up, >>> so the two are one. >> >> Being fictions, ascent to heaven and descent to hell are >> both designed to steer the Herd in desired directions. > > Well u mean earth (hell) is a fiction thenI diasgree with you. no, earth is the reality. hell is a fictional underworld to which afterlife ghosts are said to travel and bad people's ghosts are supposedly sent by a cosmic Judge for crimes or because they didn't worship the right god or do good deeds. it's all fictional. there is no post-mortem experience. > 'Heaven' is ametaphor for enlightenment which is > accompliched by sacrificinf self to non-self, > being to non-being as metaphors, these are fictions. useful as they may be, taking them literally is an error. 'heaven' as a metaphor for enlightenment is just one more fiction unless you can demonstrate that this supposed "enlightenment" is real, or has obvious and confirmable examples. why any kind of sacrifice of the kind of which you mention (plainly silly!) would be necessary to 'accomplish' what you have failed to describe as more than a metaphor is not immediately apparent. what is the value or advantage of such a sacrifice of self or being, and why should we think that non-self or non-being would be worthies to whom such sacrifice is valuable? this is very murky and sounds like one more panacea encouraging self-destruction. if you're talking about Buddhism, then the only teachings of Buddhism that ever made sense to me were those which included the notion that 'nirvana' (BADLY translated as 'enlightenment') was *itself* a metaphor for a condition in which all craving for states and objects has become extinguished, thereby terminating what I would describe as the spiritual dissonance and disruption living usually includes. heaven, in this case, is not so much a metaphor for nirvana as it is another word for it, and this better seen as a condition rather than a place or something for which some kind of self-destruction need be engaged. those promoting self-destruction are usually out to possess the vacant carcasses of volitionless drones who have followed the instructions of the Master and made themselves suitable golems for reformatting. blessed beast! boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/ TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/