From owner-fiatlvx@cmns.think.com Tue Jan 23 10:59:49 1996 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA06774 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:59:48 -0800 Received: from Cmns.Think.COM.Think.COM (Cmns.Think.COM [131.239.2.100]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA08450 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:59:47 -0800 Received: by Cmns.Think.COM.Think.COM (4.1/Ultrix2.4-C) id AA17456; Tue, 23 Jan 96 14:10:35 EST Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:26:09 -0600 From: mheiman@carleton.edu (Mark F. Heiman) Subject: Re: christian initiations To: fiatlvx@cmns.think.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-fiatlvx@cmns.think.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: fiatlvx@cmns.think.com Status: RO >i read somewhere (in a dream) that basically the main purpose of and >initiation into a magickal order was designed to scare the initiate >'nearly to death'.... >The question is, are 'christian' initiations and different, or are >initiations of other traditions used, but rationalized differently. >what makes christian magick different from pagan magick? As I understand it, baptism (the original Christian initiation) as it was originally instituted was a potentially terrifying experience. The desert people of Jesus' culture are said to have had a cultural fear of immersion in water, so the experience of being submerged and then returning to the surface could have been very much a death and rebirth experience. Obviously, it's lost those connotations in our culture. Mark F. Heiman mheiman@carleton.edu