Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.consciousness.mysticism,talk.religion.misc Subject: The Celestial Masters (C.'.M.'.) (was A.'.A.') From: 333 Reply-To: nagasiva@yronwode.com User-Agent: nn/6.6.0 Lines: 207 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 05:01:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1007010090 208.201.242.18 (Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:01:30 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:01:30 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:30075 alt.magick:277774 alt.consciousness.mysticism:52746 talk.religion.misc:367171 Orig-To: thelema93-l@yahoogroups.com 50011115 VI om > The A.'.A.'. is an organization whose membership for some reason > believes that they must keep such a secret, which is in direct > violation of the letters of their Oaths. the AA's membership does not have a coherent position on anything of which I have been able to determine. neither do all members of the AA (however called) believe that they must keep it a secret, nor do they all believe that they have "Oaths" or even that there is such a thing as "membership" per se (as compared to a networked association). > If any of the current > leadership of the A.'.A>'. is to be taken as an example of the kinds > of Adepts that the A.'.A.'. produces, it is indeed a failed system of > initiation because the leaders have failed in fulfilling in the > letter of their Oaths that they claim to hold so sacred. then perhaps you're looking at the wrong "A.'.A.'." leaders. the AA that I know has no leadership of which I am aware. all members are acquainted only with their immediate initiator, and, if they somehow find it of value, those whom any particular individual may themselves initiate. this is different than an "initiatic organization" (like (c)OTO) which uses ceremonies and initiations for membership criteria (the AA does not do this, as I know it). > The work of the A.'.A.'. is based on the the concept of Scientific > Illuminism and that "Mystery is the Enemy of Truth". I was unaware of this principle or concept. my impression is that mystery is an important part of mystical life, and that its dimensions conforms rather negatively to the control which the aspirant may wish to level upon the world at large. mystery is a spice for the mystic, and Scientific Illuminism, as practiced by the bulk of humans, is truly neither scientific nor illuminating -- in fact it too often becomes religious and dogmatic. > In Theory it is > probably the most profound and simple systems of attainment possible, > being based on the idea that the Sepheroth can be used as guides to > greater and greater levels of consciousness. this may hold within the group(s) started by VVVVV (Crowley) and DDS (GCJones), but as a whole, the Great White Brotherhood doesn't seem to require Jewish, Gnostic, stolen, invented, traditional, or particular mystical tools for the connection to the Current and self-initiation. some apparently favour Hermetic pseudo-Jewish numerolinguistics and some Lurianic ideas about the cosmos, but at best this is a subset of the AA as a whole (as the GWB, which Crowley indicated he was describing in the publication "One Star in Sight"). > Working in the strictest > sense of A.'.A.'. accomplishment though, most human being can never > make it beyond Neophyte or Zelator lacking the discipline necessary > to master the subtle aspects of the body required for the advanced > work beyond the Zelator degree. my impression is that so much confusion surrounds the Body of the Divine (or whatever you'd like to call it), that charlatans are able to create fabricated social lineages and call them by a recognized name of the Celestial Masters (Secret Chiefs, Tibetan Masters, etc.) but without any conferment of consciousness-development. that is, people *imagine* that they "attain" or "accomplish" and have no scientific background from which to discern actual progress. ego-inflation or personality-cults are the typical result, with much ado made about what specific individuals have created (noticed the focus on the AC/GCJ "A.'.A.'." rather than to expand the discussion to the way that the GWB as a whole actually works). > Call it A.D.D. or what you will, I > call it the curse of the human race in this modern age, LAZINESS. that's your Protestant Work Ethic showing. laziness (as in the course of a river, or the wu-wei of Taoism) is too often UNDERstudied. aspirants to Hermetic systems typically want to do much more than they are able and with insufficient studies to make heads or tails out of what would be practically advantageous for them to pursue. when a newbie goes to a "Thelemic" forum and asks how they should proceed, typically they are given some pat standard book, org, or ritual, and told to engage it, but without any real consideration of the character and nature of the person who is asking, what they should be finding, or toward what any of these ought to lead ("I say they're Thelemic, so they are, dammit!"). > ...those > who do possess the discipline to step beyond these bounds often stop > th necessary Yoga work required by the A.'.A.'. after passing the > initial test and fail to accomplish any work of note. unfortunately too many cannot see the trees of actual accomplishment for the forest of "adepti" who have gone before them and recommended their patented method of "progress". where are the Thelemites who start questioning the *reality* of progress? discern between self-delusion as a pitfall and something that actually produces self-transformation? ultimately those who create these systems don't seem to care much for the condition or course of the newbie that comes after them. they are more interested in emphasizing their position with respect to an org, their authority so as to better be able to convince, and their wisdom and power so as to inspire a cult in their wake (e.g. Crowleyanity). > A disciplined body is a disciplined mind. I also apply this same > criticism to myself. the two are worthy of separate and comparable disciplines, related in character to the medium of the operand. bodily disciplines work on muscles, mental disciplines work on synapses, mystical disciplines work on the spirit. > The A.'.A.'. is subject to a lot of infighting based on it's degree > system and the misunderstanding that many people have of how it works > and what it means. we agree! not just "infighting". it's a struggle for appearance and for position. any struggle associated with the A.'.A.'. must be founded on bogus principles, from what I can see. if you see someone struggling for authority, competing with others, etc., you can pretty well assume that hey have no real connection to the Great White Brotherhood. this goes for (c)OTO officers who try to dissuade people from joining their particular favourite strand of social "A.'.A.'." group/lineage/whatever. > There are many masters and no pupils in the realm > of A.'.A.'. claims and it is borderline insanity. false. all traditional schools with some substance to them have some valuable connection to the A.'.A.'., though probably by some other name. > ...There seems to be a lack of any > groundwork in many of the socalled "Master of the temple" wannabes. perhaps because you take people's email expression seriously? you'd know a Master of the Temple because she is busy making it possible for the bulk of humanity of like-composure. "wannabe"? maybe poseurs. it's rather difficult to fake offline witnessing and ritualizing activities. there are some standard symptoms -- social schedules, an actual temple set-up, or at least an altar or two, meetings for services or studies, etc. > I used to respect some of these people for having the balls to assume > the grade but have learned to see it as yet another form of Laziness > and lack of accomplishment. Wanna get a few quick students, call > yourself Frater K.R. A MASTER OF THE TEMPLE in really big letters and > see how many you can fool into thinking you really are. Maybe you can > use it to rebuild your master's (who demoted you) former Order. Of > course there are a few exceptions that can be found in the world, > somewhere... I hope... maybe. BIG MAYBE. we agree here. but your notions about what the AA is, how it operates, and how you connect with it will serve to determine the quality of your association. get mixed up with charlatans and for sure you'll be disillusioned. I'd say you went about your AA application inexpertly, based only on what you've said about the AA in your posts to T93-L. > ...the people in the know don't talk about it because they > don't want to deal with all those people not in the know who will > laugh in their faces and say they are wrong. this is untrue. there are many cases of people unconcerned with being laughed at here in this email list expressing their ideas about all of these subjects. if they are afraid of a little laughter, they can hardly be called adepti. > So in Thelema we live on a "don't ask, don't tell" policy because if > you tell the truth you will be ridiculed and if you open your mouth > and have no idea what you are talking about you will be ridiculed. > Wow, makes a lot sense to me. perhaps *you* live this way. I presume you're just smearing as many as you can with your big wide brushes, tho. if this is all you see, then I can certainly understand your pessimism. I'd recommend that you start looking more closely at what is described about the AA (and especially the Celestial Masters, Secret Chiefs, et al) which TRANSCENDS THE PHYSICAL PLANE. there are elements of instruction which can allow the interested to bypass all human fallability and ego (other than one's own) for the purposes of interacting with the Masters directly (no middle-persons!). Invoke me under my stars. > Love is the law, love under will. 333 === n a g a s i v a @ l u c k y m o j o . c o m