there are certain questions which appear to be rarely asked, since i collect them and mark their frequency in realms occult or mystic particularly. discovering these has been a thrill and a joy, regardless of the answers. asking them forever changed the universe, and made my mark as a magician.
one of the first i can remember asking was what the relation of the sequence of the Planets was to the days of the week. I had to ask this in precisely the right way and at the right time, else i'd never have come up with an answer that yielded the Nigris Sequence.
during the 1990s i had been reading "The Golden Dawn" by Israel Regardie and constructing a MUD called 'Divination Web' for occultists which featured a radial septagrammatic wheel whose design was determined by exit series. in contemplating whether to use the weekday or 'Chaldean' series and seeing them in a graphic constellation on a septagram itself in the Golden Dawn data, i analyzed and derived its singular third alternative which i dubbed The Nigris (Planetary) Sequence ('nigris' being a name i have used for decades as a Satanic goad to my occult kin). I got to name the planetary sequence because as far as i can determine this has never been pointed out before or named before i came along. details below.
KERNEL =========================================================== ===== (Planetary Order Talisman --- Skip-1 Formula!) ===== ANCIENTS : M-2-3-1-5-6-7 (mean terracentric motion order) NIGRIS : 2-1-6-M-3-5-7 (a mysterious, hidden sequence!) WEEKDAYS : 1-M-5-2-6-3-7 (weekdays in the solar calendar) =========================================================== PLAN-KEY : 1-2-3-M-5-6-7 (Sun-Merc-Ven-Moon-Mars-Jup-Sat) ========== (Rotating Wisdom From The Ancients!) =========== =========================================================== /KERNEL =========================================================== BRIEF NIGRIS SEQUENCE FAMILY 7216M35 / 35M6127 216M357 / 753M612 16M3572 / 2753M61 6M35721 / 12753M6 M357216 / 612753M 357216M / M612753 57216M3 / 3M61275 ======= Primary Manifestation (derived) 216M357 may be derived from the Chaldean (M2321567) as by interruption Weekdays (1M52637) derive from Nigris by interruption reversed primary: 753M612 ------- Secondary Manifestation (ordinal) 12753M6 reversed ordinal: 6M35721 /BRIEF =========================================================== EXTENDED KEY (ASTRONOMICAL : and 4 = EARTH) ============================================= 1 -2 -3 -M -5 -6 -7 Sun-Mercury-Venus-Moon-Mars-Jupiter-Saturn there seem to be *2* predominant arrangements (out of the possible 14) for each sequence which have been emphasized by traditional sources (notes include: * -- primary emphasis; ** secondary emphasis, if any): ------------------------------------------------------------------------ WEEKDAY SEQUENCE ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *1-M-5-2-6-3-7 7-3-6-2-5-M-1 *SUN (Sunday) MOON (Monday) MARS (Tuesday) MERCURY (Wednesday) JUPITER (Thursday) VENUS (Friday) SATURN (Saturday) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ mean terracentric ANCIENTS/'CHALDEAN' ARRANGEMENTS motion (out) spheres (in) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ **M-2-3-1-5-6-7 7-6-5-1-3-2-M* **MOON *SATURN MERCURY JUPITER VENUS MARS SUN SUN MARS VENUS JUPITER MERCURY SATURN MOON ------------------------------------------------------------------------ NIGRIS ARRANGEMENTS (implied) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *2-1-6-M-3-5-7 7-5-3-M-6-1-2**? (A) *MERCURY SATURN (B) SUN MARS JUPITER VENUS MOON MOON VENUS JUPITER MARS SUN SATURN MERCURY Analysis (A) its commencement with Mercury is in part my choice (because it implies *magic*, communication, and Tahutian flavours) /EXTENDED ========== COMPLICATION To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.tarot,alt.divination,alt.astrology,alt.pagan.magick Subject: Planetary Sequences in History and Occultism From: nagasiva
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:08:04 GMT 50031008 viii om -- responding to myself cuz nobody kept playing with me :> Joseph Littleshoes : #> 0=whatever #> 1=mercury #> 2=venus #> 3=earth #> etc. etc. this is what was done, apparently, by Greeks or Chaldeans, (minus the 0) and based on terracentric (what I like to call 4-centered) mean motion (apparent motility as seen from Terra/Earth). 7-6-5-1-3-2-M not by spatial location but motility Saturn-Jupiter-Mars-Sun-Venus-Mercury-Moon scientific materialists and heliocentrics revised it to 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-M-3-2-1 (or 10-9-8-7-6-5-M-4-3-2-1) by spatial location and demoting M to a satellie and promoting 1 to a star. I leave 1 a number because it is the center around which all these numbers are revolving, whereas M is actually revolving around 4, and if we were going to include other M's around the other #s we'd be in for a slough of them! :> Pluto-Neptune-Uranus-Saturn-Jupiter-Mars-Earth-Moon-Venus-Mercury-Sun #> or leave earth out and give either the moon or mars the #> 3rd number, though im more comftorble giverning the #> moon 3, earth 4 and mars 5. I still like 1=Sun, 2=Merc, 3=Venus, 4=Earth, M=Moon, 5=Mars, etc. nagasiva: # ...I haven't found any justification for the Sequence of # the Ancients.... if this is the 'Chaldean Order of the Planets', then there appears to be a rationale in the motility of the planets as compared with Terra as described above. here's the scientific chart I found online that has its details: from Planets, houses, and signs by Pam Ciampi http://www.pciampi-astrology.com/planets.html # Moon takes 28-30 days to orbit the Earth # Mercury - 88 days # Venus - 225 days # Sun - 365 days "apparent motion" # Mars - 1.88 years # Jupiter - 11.86 years # Saturn - 29.46 years # Uranus - 84.08 years # Neptune - 164.8 years # Pluto - 248.4 years so this justifies the order from a scientific basis, empirical even. there has been some conjecture in cyberspace I've run across that says that this is not "Chaldean" at all but is instead Greek, Hellenistic. magic squares in Agrippa: # 3x3=Saturn # 4x4=Jupiter # 5x5=Mars # 6x6=Sun # 7x7=Venus # 8x8=Mercury # 9x9=Moon same as Neoplatanic sphere sequence and kamea sequence, the latter presumably based on the others. # Ancients Sequence (usually starts with Moon) # Sun / Mars / Jupiter / Saturn / Moon / Mercury / Venus the Moon-start seems to be a sphero-centric convention (see below) revised/reversed for traditional outward-to-terracentric order: 'Chaldean Order of the Planets' (usually starts with Saturn) Saturn / Jupiter / Mars / Sun / Venus / Mercury / Moon compare the pre-Copernican sphere-cosmos: Primum Mobile, Zodiac, then Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon, then Elemental and this all looks pretty related. # Weekday Sequence (usually starts with Sun) # Sun / Moon / Mars / Mercury / Jupiter / Venus / Saturn this seems consistent and may derive from *tables* rather than a strict septagram. # Nigris Sequence (usually starts with Mercury) # Sun / Mercury / Saturn / Mars / Venus / Moon / Jupiter this could be revised to: Nigris Sequence (starts with Mercury cuz I say so :>) Mercury / Saturn / Mars / Venus / Moon / Jupiter / Sun or should it go like this? Mercury / Sun / Jupiter / Moon / Venus / Mars / Saturn anyone seen this somewhere before other than on Divination Web? :> I still think I get to claim it since I named it! that said, I do think I may have found it in one of the Agrippan tables (this may have been Tyson or I may be misremembering, I'll look and followup!). # are there any other logical *or* traditional Planetary Sequences # that occultists use or have used? this is what I've been looking up lately while examining decans and faces in astrology as it derives from Agrippa and integrates to Tarotic tradition. the 'decans' apparently derive from various contexts and some (e.g. Egyptian?) are called 'faces' elsewhere. the whole is apparently a somewhat confused and confusing history in astrology! # these could be mapped to sephiroth (as traditional, or novelly) # straight through to the false Da'ath, and they can be applied # in some series to the tarotic Trumps. here's a quote which pertains and may inspire substantive-chat: quoting from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mithras/message/773 john.wallace writes: # Otto Neugebauer's The Exact Sciences in Antiquity # (I highly recommend it). All kinds of good info but # pertinent to your search for planetary orders I refer # you to Neugebauer's chapter entitled "Origin and # Transmission of Hellenistic Science", especially p. 169. # # He states that the earliest horoscopes in Egypt date # to the time of Augustus and says the spread of astrology # in general dates from this time period (p. 168). # # As for the planetary orders the standard sequence in # the Seleucid cuneiform texts is: # # Jupiter-Venus-Mercury-Saturn-Mars and I respond here: as Jupiter-Venus-Mercury I don't see how it can compare with the Triple-Set I outlined above ('Chaldean'/Weekday/'Nigris') and I'm still looking for some evidence that I wasn' the first to identify the third sequence in derivation from the first 2. # (the reason is "unknown"); the standard Greek horoscope # order is: # # Sun-Moon-Saturn-Jupiter-Mars-Venus-Mercury # # (this follows the planets perceived depth per their # periods of sidereal rotation); this is almost the same as the 'Chaldean Planetary Order', transposing Sun/Moon to the front for some reason. Saturn / Jupiter / Mars / Sun / Venus / Mercury / Moon does this commentary of "perceived depth" make any sense? or is this confusion on top of motility-astronomy? # and finally points out # that our current seven day week is a modification of # this plan based on a scheme that assigns the planets # to the 24 hours of the day: # # Sun-Moon-Mars-Mercury-Jupiter-Venus-Saturn # (p. 169). this seems to imply that Neugebauer *really* means the 'Chaldean Order of the Planets' / 'Order of the Ancients', by which the Weekday Sequence might be derived, but with the passage of centuries, many variations may have been derived/constructed/fabricated. # ...Neugebauer does make this interesting comment regarding # the Hellenistic planetary orders: # # "Here we have a system which is obviously # Greek in origin and not only because it # is based on the arrangement of the celestial # bodies according to their distances from the # earth but also it supposes a division of the # day into 24 hours, a form of reckoning which # is not Babylonian but a Hellenistic product # of ultimately Egyptian origin. It is totally # misleading when this origin is called # 'Chaldean' in modern literature" (pp 169-170). here's why I have now called 'Chaldean' rather than knowing for sure that this is true. how does this compare with the 'Chaldean Oracles' which are supposed to be the Oracles of Zoroaster? is any of this really related to the people who are being described? or is it a later paste-over by Greeks or others in order to give them a semblance of age/authority? # But didn't the Graeco-Romans themselves *assume* this # information was "Chaldean"...? I do find it interesting # that astrology takes off in earnest following the Julian # Calendar reforms and that both the person behind the # reforms (Sosogines) and the planetary order of the # seven day week have Egyptian origins.... the fact that there are 3 different astrological modes in which we may explain "decans/faces" (Egyptian/Chaldean/Greek) makes this all the more confusing and interesting! does anyone have a clear explanation? thanks! nagasiva /COMPLICATION =============== PROJECTION To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.astrology,alt.magick,alt.tarot,alt.divination,alt.pagan.magick Subject: Re: Planetary Sequences in Occultism From: nagasiva Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:22:20 GMT 50031010 viii om lunatix! Althaeamas! Joseph Littleshoes : #># ...I have recently been playing around with #># "Chiro"s" numeralogical attributions for the #># planets. As it applys to palmestry, yes, but #># also as i find him to have at least in his own #># mind created a coherent system of correspindencies #># that he seems to be satisfied with. #># #># I am uncomftorble in his system with the lack of #># a "0" however im working on rectifying that. nagasiva: #> what is it about a 0 that intrigues or inspires? Joseph Littleshoes : # As it exists as a number it seems to me it should # somehow be incorporated in any symbolic representation # of the solar system (or universe). something from nothing? a centerpoint (0,0,0)? # Though im leaning more and more twords some sort of # Taoistic "prime cause" or tottality of the universe # as it is expressed in our solar system and ourselves. -1, 1? # Possibly evven "0" as symbolic of the awarness or # consciousness that percieves but is not the # intelligance of "1' mercury or the emotions of # "2" venus. interesting. so far I'm using 1 2 3 M 5 6 7 and this seems to work very well for Planetary sequence (astronomical:actual as compared with the Ancients' Order, which is astronomical:mean-motion). # the planets, signs, elements can all be given numbers # (whether one agrees with any particular assignment or # not) so hopefully a process of elimination will produce # somesort of corespondance for "0" 0 only makes sense to me if the thing is a centerpoint in a grid/map or if it lies outside the object-set somehow (as does the Fool or Excuse in older Tarot). # The obvious include, the tao, the ain soph aur, basis # of possible or even probable vibration, Pan (as all) # the lineal figure of zero and the tendencay for # everything in the universe to move in a circular pattern, # and, according to 777, dragons, roses, lotuses, # star saphire, black diamond, Aum, Harpocrates, Amun, Nuit, yeah I think there's more than one Tao (seen/unseen) and there's more than one level of the Unlimited Light (often 0, 00, and 000). #> Planetary sequence in occult data is something that I've #> been fascinated with for years, but I haven't found any #> justification for the Sequence of the Ancients, or the #> Weekday Sequence # The early western mystics being unfamiliar with the # "arabic" numerals, to say nothing of zero (no pun # intended) inclines me to queston and try to revise # the traditonal attributions. mostly I haven't seen number-associations with Planets, excepting the 'tables' (magic squares) from Agrippa, which sets them as 3x3-Saturn, 4x4-Jupiter... 9x9-Moon. #> in such a case, the question immediately becomes: why #> 6=sun? oh I figured this one out. in 7 6 5 1 3 2 M ('Chaldean Order') the magic square attributes add 2 because there *are* no magic squares of less than 3x3 (unless you like to think 2 2 1 2 2 magic square order 2? magic square order 1? ) and since Sun is mean-motion #4, +2 for magic square = 6! # 0. sun # 1. mercury # 2. venus # 3. earth # 4. moon # 5. mars # 6. jupitar # 7. saturn # 8. uranus # 9. neptune # 10. pluto yeah, this has definite appeals. for this same reason I started with 0 in the first sefira position in the Tetraktys I was working with for sefirotic Tarot studies and did really enjoy the subsequent layout 6 7 8 9 3 4 5 1 2 0 with its 1/Force/Yang + 2/Form/Yin implications. but there were problems without a 10, and I eventually settled on something more traditionally Pythagorean. #> and I've considered whether or not to include the Asteroid #> Belt (which I like to called Oceanids :>) between 6 and 7. # # one could include decimals, 6.1 to whatever unt of # astroids one wish to include? or moons (4.1 being our M :>). #> are there any other logical *or* traditional Planetary Sequences #> that occultists use or have used? these could be mapped to #> sephiroth (as traditional, or novelly) straight through to the #> false Da'ath, and they can be applied in some series to the #> tarotic Trumps. I'm cataloguing all I can find online and in text. there are a few amusing variations on the Ancients and some novel sequences. I'll repost them here once I get a good batch of them together. # In so far as our conception of the above arise out of our # evolution on this earth perhaps earth should be "0" thus # making # # 0-earth # 1-sun # 2-mercury # 3-venus # 4-moon # 5-mars # 6-jupitar # 7-satrun # 8-uranus # 9-neptune # 10-pluto *there*'s the real issue. if you start from 0=Earth, *then* how do you proceed? will you just switch it for where it would be astronomically? or will you do like the Ancients and identify them relative to our terra-life by their mean motions (7 6 5 1 3 2 M)? or will you attempt a pretty ugly kludge by virtue of their changing distances from Terra and cement them by proximate distance (as some amusingly proclaim about the Order of the Ancients!): 0 earth 1 moon? 2 venus? 3 mars? 4 mercury? 5 sun? 6 jupiter 7 saturn 8 uranus 9 neptune 10 pluto is there some absolute sequence of proximateness to Earth granted being on the same side of Sol? one problem is that all of these vary in proximity as Terra moves about Sol. after Merc/Mars, however, I'm not sure they change much. # even then, and if a sequence can be established that # incorporates "0" it would only be symbolic of some # actuality yet to be defined. the argument I find convincing is that only *orbiting* bodies are positively numbered, whereas sun could get a 0 if looking at this series astronomically. nagasiva /PROJECTION ============== EXTENSION note the modern astronomical cipher: 1=sun, 2=merc, 3=venus, 4=earth, M=moon, 5=mars, 6=jupiter, 7=saturn. note also that this can be expanded to include *11* (or even *12* if one includes the Oceanids between 5 and 6! to make a 1-to-1 mapping between Planets and Signs! Goddess of Groundhogs : # Could you take a minute and explain this, lorax? Thanx explained and elaborated upon here for the interested. #> =========================================================== #> ===== (Planetary Order Talisman --- Skip-1 Formula!) ===== #> ANCIENTS : M-2-3-1-5-6-7 (mean terracentric motion order) 'Ancients' above (aka 'The Ancient Order of the Planets' or The Chaldean Order of the Planets') -- the 'Chaldean Order of the Planets' (the 7 visible Planets) is an old magical symbol-structure keyed to the astronomical observation of the night sky whose sequence is derived from the apparent motion of the various celestial 'movers' (i.e. 'planets'), from our satellite Moon and stellar Sun to Saturn and others orbiting Sol). this sequence is identical to the 'spheres' presumed to be surrounding Terra in a geocentric and pre-Copernican cosmos and was the basis for most Middle-Eastern and hence European magical systems reflected in such classic texts as Agrippa's "Three Books of Occult Philosophy" from which so many ceremonial (and Neopagan) religious get our ideas about symbolism, especially astrological but also alchemical and within other applications. Agrippa and others often proceed inward from Saturn in this sequence when relating it (i.e. Saturn-Jupiter-Mars-Sun-Venus-Mercury-Moon). #> ===== (Planetary Order Talisman --- Skip-1 Formula!) ===== the "Skip-1 Formula!" which I am pointing out is a means of deriving the Weekday Sequence (see below) from this quite traditional cosmologic symbol-set, PLUS revealing a hidden order concealed within this age-old symbol-set! in brief, start with the Ancient Order of the Planets (esp. as presented from M(oon) to 7(Saturn)) and successively skip one in order to derive the intermediary ('Nigris') sequence. this is called the Nigris Sequence because of the Magus who has pointed it out to the world as the *only other possible configuration of these 7 Planets derivable from the Order of the Ancients in a septagram -- something that ceremonialists and magicians of the past enjoyed doing, but they did not, as far as I can determine, identify this sequence in their primary works in any direct way. method: thus skipping M we obtain 2, skipping 3 we get 1, etc. in a circular return, until the Nigris Sequence is obtained thus: ANCIENTS => NIGRIS M 2 2 1 3 6 1 M 5 3 6 5 7 7 #> NIGRIS : 2-1-6-M-3-5-7 (a mysterious, hidden sequence!) the implication of the Nigris Sequence is as yet undetermined. it is the only other sequence derivable (along with their reverses) from the Chaldean Order of the Planets of old. that it begins with Mercury rather than Sun (Weekday) or Moon ('Chaldean') is indicative of its potential magical value (Mercury is the god of magic, and this hidden sequence may yield greater power). #> WEEKDAYS : 1-M-5-2-6-3-7 (weekdays in the solar calendar) applying the same Skip-1 formula, the Nigris Sequence may be used to derive the Weekday Sequence. skipping 2 we obtain 1, skipping 6 we get 6, etc. in a circular return, until the Weekday Sequence is obtained thus: NIGRIS => WEEKDAYS 2 1 1 M 6 5 M 2 3 6 5 3 7 7 #> ===== (Planetary Order Talisman --- Skip-1 Formula!) ===== #> ========== (Rotating Wisdom From The Ancients!) =========== I constructed the Planetary Order Talisman as a .signature file in order to publicize this esoteric secret to the magicoreligious communities online. it is keyed to both esoteric (e.g. Agrippan) and mundane (solar calendar, Sunday/Monday/Tuesday=>Saturday) contexts. the method of derivation may be simplified by mapping these to a septagram/heptagram (7-pointed star), and the Nigris Sequence is a unique discovery (along with its reverse) which I'd like to make available to the esoteric community of modern times. it is very easy to start with any of these sequences and derive the rest in a variety of skipping methods. I have presented here what I think will be the easiest to apprehend without septagraphic stars (which I may later compose for explanation purposes). thanks for your interest! pass it on! /EXTENSION =============== GENERATION ========================================================================== ============ (Planetary Order Talisman --- Skip-1 Formula!) ============= MODERNS : M-2-3-1-5-6-7-8-9-10 (mean terracentric motion order) NIGRIS : 2-M-10-9-8-7-6-5-1-3 (a new mysterious sequence!) WEEKDAYS : 1-M-8-5-2-9-6-3-10-7 (fantasy weekdays like a solar calendar) ========================================================================== PLAN-KEY : 1-2-3-M-5-6-7-8-9-10 (Sun-Merc-Ven-Moon-Mars-Jup-Sat-Ura-Nep-Eri) ================== (Rotating Wisdom From The Moderns!) =================== ========================================================================== /GENERATION
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