Path: shell.portal.com!usenet From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (mordred) Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.magick.tyagi Subject: Re: 'Reclaiming' Satanism? (Was Re: Show and Tell Time) Date: 19 Dec 1994 19:56:15 GMT Organization: Portal Communications (shell) Lines: 162 Message-ID: <3d4ogv$sde@news1.shell> References: <0bf_9412070827@astaroth.sacbbx.com> <3cojca$1rc@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> <3cq3j7$ala@pentagon.io.com> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (mordred) NNTP-Posting-Host: jobe.shell.portal.com Xref: shell.portal.com alt.satanism:12864 alt.magick.tyagi:1630 Kali Yuga 49941219 "Mr. Scratch" (I certainly do like you!) writes: |...the type of person attracted to Satanism is often the kind of person |who rejects society because he has been REJECTED by society. With this I'm inclined to agree, at least that she has FELT rejected by society, even if this has not happened to a great degree. |Suddenly he is free to be rude and anti-social, he can steal or lie, harm |others without giving a damn, because he doesn't feel that he should have |to face the consequences. WE ARE FREE TO LIVE THIS KIND OF LIFE (at least initially, until we are caught and put into prison). As long as we can get away with it, we are free to do these things. The consequences are integral to the action, and those who pretend that they are not will have a rude awakening. More importantly, WE ARE ALWAYS FREE TO BE RUDE AND ANTI-SOCIAL. In fact, I think that being this way is a quite important freedom and I enjoy exercising it upon occasion (and especially online). Living-in-fear-of-consequences is the nominal Christian path, and I reject this as only so much social-control. |Society, after all, deserves what it gets for having kicked him around |from moment to moment. This is entirely true. I am the individual of whom you speak and I agree that I am drawn to Satanism. I am naturally (or culturally-conditioned so as to be) predisposed to Satanic attitudes, mentalities and emotions. I feel that these are normal human responses to the oppressive culture into which I was born (I harbor no illusions that this is the worst possible scenario -- I have a very easy life in comparison to some others!). Still, it is true that society deserves me. I am its nightmares and I may bring it to a rude awakening. |He has a whole image and philosophy that he has adapted to support his |anti-social impulses. Of course. We each devise and discover our justifications. I have my 'Great Martyrdom Cult', which I find supportive of my anti-social and rude activities. |Occasionally these sorts of people rise to power, but it is rare, because |they do not learn to deal with others socially or diplomatically. That is, they do not learn (or sometimes have the ability) to continually compromise. Learning from the masonic orgs and career politicians, only those who kiss ass and compromise incessantly on their ethics get anywhere with regard to social power. Actually, I CAN deal with others socially and diplomatically. I have no reason to yet, however. That is, I don't see that social power is of any benefit whatsoever. All it does is tie up my time and get me interacting in a bunch of shit-political squabbles that waste the genius which is me. I'd rather spend the bulk playing other games right now. |The ones who CAN do both do not need some flimsy philosophical-image to |prop up their egos and justify their actions to themselves. Actions need no justification. We do them or we don't. One might say that the Temple of Set is founded upon a 'flimsy philosophical-image' (Xeper and the mythos and ideology promoted around 'Set') and props up egos, justifying intellectual communication about all manner of subjects. I see no problem with this. Your language is critical. One might just as well phrase it in positive ways ("Philosophical frameworks provide the raw material in which ego development may take place and actions may be coordinated and substantiated within a larger, powerful paradigm."). |Too many Satanists remind me of their hero Nietzshe: armchair supermen, |for whom all their talk of power and ruthlessness is an attempt to mask |from themselves their puny and weakened little stature and soul. It is nice to hear Nietzsche argued against. Since you misspell his name I wonder how much exposure you have to him. I have very little, though I am rectifying this as I begin my survey of Satanic literature. [quoting Lupo] |> ...Going on Donahue (or whatever) will accomplish nothing; you`re just |> making money for some schmuck. The best one can hope for by doing this |> is to redefine Satanism in peoples minds, in a similar way that paganism |> has already been redefined into something, not only harmless, but |> something actually laughable. |...it is the purpose of media exposure to redefine Satanism. ...with the |proper approach and the right kind of exposure, WE get to define it the |way we choose. Definition is the end of this manifestation of the Great Martyrdom Cult. Once 'Satanism' is defined it will become a tool of the masses and just one more program of enslavement. This is what has happened to a certain degree with the Temple of Set (although if there is variation amongst the herd within the confines of the org, then I may be mistaken), and it is a danger within the Church of Satan (though LaVey seems to have laid some very important foundations for freedom of thought and expression within his books -- the only areas with which I see difficulties are when it comes to legalities: 'drugs' and 'child/animal sacrifice'). |If you cannot control the way people perceive your own movement then I |question how much control you have at all. Control is only a problem for men without sexual experience. It is the entire problem within Western culture -- control of nature, control of children, control of drugs, control of the economy, control of ourselves. Freedom is when we have total control over everything in our environment. Security is when we are totally controlled and cared for. The two are mutually incompatible and an equilibrium must be found in order to reach some peace with them in one's life. Attempting to maximize one or the other is a pipe-dream and leads to all the disparities common today. |...Satanists get fired from their jobs, threatened, harrassed and |arrested all the time. There are people out there who would just as |soon see you dead, my friend. Not because of anything you have done, |but because of the misinformation they have been fed. Wouldn't you |rather clear the matter up before someone puts a bullet in your ear? The problem is not the misinformation, it is what we are trained to do to and with that which we do not like or which represents a threat to us -- cast it out, destroy it, kill it, eliminate, eliminate, ELIMINATE! I see this in Satanist propaganda too, even hints in LaVey. It is a disease to a certain extent. |...without a firm and intelligent support that is willing to deal with |the public, the Satanist movement would be an easy target for demagogues. I don't see that such support will prevent demagoguery. Such appeal to leadership/followership is indoctrinated into people within my culture from an early age so as to facilitate child-rearing and prevent revolution and crime. Addressing these problems in this way has the unfortunate side-effect that people vote based on tv-sound/vis-bites and do not take the time to really learn anything so as to come to awareness. We just learn to be sheep, trusting in the wolves. |The asocial rejects who make up a large chunk of this movement could be |dismembered by a little legislation and a disapproving public sentiment. And so the movement would be co-opted yet again and sink into enslavement mentalisty and conformist agendas. It is already doing this as it becomes organized. At least some are attempting to mimick the Neopagan networking scheme. [idiotic Aquino/LaVey feuding material omitted - I refuse to discuss it] nagasiva, tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (The Order of K@s Under Satan)