From: tyagi mordred nagasiva <tyagi@HouseofKaos.Abyss.com>
To: FiatLVX 
Subject: Satanism, Christianity and Magick
Date: Kali Yuga 49941213
Quoting: |andrewb@netcom.com (zephyr)
 
|a more proper approach would be to define "Satanist" as "one who believes
|that Satan is the bringer of spiritual power to humanity."  

I recommend that anyone interested in defining Satanism take a look at the
alt.satanism FAQ, which delineates very many possible understandings of
the term and the path which is associated with it.  You may find it at
ftp.portal.com/pub/ss/FAQs.

The problem is that, just like Christianity, many would like to define it 
for us, and I find that it feels more respectful of me to refrain from such 
definition with regard to others.  Your suggestion above does indeed conform 
to some Satanist's preference, but there are others (me, for example) for 
whom that would not suffice.


|...without Christianity, there would be no Satanism.  

I'm afraid the matter is much more complex than this and I would refer those
who have an interest to alt.satanism or to contact me via email if you
choose.  I may practice my Satanism within the confines of this list (in
that I purposefully become the adversary to certain expressions and ideas
which I find oppressive or unbalanced), but I would rather discuss the matter
and substance of Satanism elsewhere unless and until it coincides with my
Christianity (which it often does and apparently has here once again).


|For an individual to believe in Satan, that individual must also believe 
|in Christ; Satan is, quite specifically, a Christian deity, or angel.  

This is the argument of very many, though I feel that it is somewhat extreme
and simplistic.  It all depends on who you are talking to.  Talk to a Neopagan
and they'll likely tell you the same thing as a nominal Christian: "Satanism
is a perversion of Christianity."  But talk to a *Satanist* (or, preferrably
more than one of them) and you'll get quite a few different perspectives,
including that that which is today Satanism has existed for a very long time 
by various names and has inspired many social religious movements, perhaps
including Christianity and Wicca.  The range on this issue is truly marvelous.
 

|Similarly, Christ is a Satanic deity, or angel.  

With this I would agree, but not for the reasons you would probably use. :>


|The two are so closely connected that I can hardly imagine
|that Satanism "has nothing to do with Christianity."

That it arises within a culture which is predominantly Christian is not to
be overlooked.  I'll quote LaVey on the matter and be done with the religious
issues before moving on to that regarding my Christianity and magick:

[LaVey here is speaking only for Satanists who may be described by his
 theoretics associated with the Church of Satan]

"We don't worship Satan, we worship ourselves using the metaphorical
 representation of the qualities of Satan.  Satan *is* the name used
 in the Judeo-Christian tradition for that force of individuality and
 pride within us.  But the force itself has been called by many names.
 We embrace Christian myths of Satan and Lucifer, along with Satanic
 renderings in Greek, Roman, Islamic, Sumerian, Syrian, Phrygian,
 Egyptian, Chinese or Hindu mythologies, to name but a few.  We are
 not limited to one deity, but encompass all the expressions of the
 accuser or the one who advocates free thought and rational alternatives
 by whatever name he is called in a particular time and land.  It so
 happens that we are living in a culture that is predominantly Judeo-
 Christian, so we emphasize Satan.  If we were living in Roman times,
 the central figure, perhaps the title of our religion, would be
 different.  But the name would be expressing and communicating the same
 thing.  It's all context."


As far as how this path may relate to Christianity in *my* life, and,
more importantly, to magick, I can explain this fairly easily.  As
I have said before, I place myself upon the Cross the World, at the
Great Crossroads where all spiritual paths converge and rest in shade.
Satanism, especially as portrayed by LaVey, but by others as well, is 
a spiritual path of strength, open-mindedness, and iconoclasm.  

As such it assists the magician in keeping away the bane of certainty and
of judgement through opposition in favor of the underdog.  It fits right
in to my vow of humility (associating with the lowly, the downtrodden), and
where many religious movements form organizations and promote the good of
the One/group ("The good of the many outweighs the good of the few or the 
one"), Satanism is a voice for individual life and liberty, for the ego as 
a healthy part of human life ("The good of the one outweighs the the good 
of the many).

Both are important, I feel.  

LaVey puts it thus: "The essence of Satanism, and Satanic practices, is the
integration of apparent opposites.  We blend magic and rationality together,
without compromising either, in the same way we integrate different aspects
of one person into the same body."  It is here, in that *integration of
apparent opposites* that I find my Satanism meets my Christianity in a very
important Work of art, of magick.  

I understand that some list members have difficulties with Satanism and I'm
sorry if you see this as somehow contradicting your values and ideas.  I 
think there are many ways to understand these subjects, and the way I'm
approaching them is not at all uncommon, as I hope to show by quoting those
who feel similarly.  LaVey is no 'Christian-lover'.  He is sometimes quite
rude and officious in his manner.  Yet, like Crowley, from whom he has
learned so much, he is a very important source for those who would explore 
the mysteries of the world and of themselves.

Where LaVey stops and I take up my path is that I *also* consider myself
Christian and place value in the Christian path (I know so little of 
Judaism that I cannot be sure of this with regard to it, though I suspect
I will like it greatly when I come to study it).  LaVey needs to fill the
role of Opposer, and so he argues for what I would call some very Christian
values in the *name* of Satanism.  He also has quite a LOT to say about
magick, some of it of value.  Most people can't get past his language.
So it goes. 

For my part, I feel I surpass LaVey by accepting even that which he openly 
and (in intentional controversy) despises, and this catalyzes what I 
consider to be my Christian magick, even though the herd will chasten
and rebuke me in my glorious sacrifice.
  

Peace and Darkness

tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Nocifer)