To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Hsi Wang Mu)
Subject: Demonology, HGA, etc. 
Date: Kali Yuga 4995012 
Quoting: |joshua@sleepy.retix.com (joshua geller) 

|the "named I" or point of perception and control is best regarded as a
|tool for using symbols. it is a reflection of the self, not the self.

The self is a phantasm according to many buddhists.  It is a reflection of
a continuously changing perceptual mechanism and a creation of social
interaction.  This doesn't mean that that which perceives is phantasmic,
just that it constantly changes and identification is error (restriction
is sin/ignorance).


|certain aspects or processes within the interior world may be more or 
|less hidden from the point of perception and control. these aspects or
|processes are often those associated with images, emotions or realities
|which the point of perception and control views as averse, unpleasant, 
|distasteful, "evil" etc. this is not necessarily true of all of these
|aspects and processes or even most. the4 details of this vary tremendously
|from individual to individual.

Yes, in Eastern systems they are sometimes called 'dakini', I think.


|classical demonology, from this point of view, consists of the naming,
|defining and bringing under the sway of the point of perception and
|control of these hidden aspects or processes of the interior world.

The alternative (one which I prefer) is to settle oneself in (i.e. find
the most advantageous position possible, whether this be the K & C of
the HGA (below) or not) and then interact fruitfully with them.  This may
be compared with engaging an 'opponent' (I'm sure there are other terms,
such as 'partner') in a dance of resolution.  This may or may not include
'domination'.


|the abramelin operation consists of the conscious establishment or 
|reestablishment of communication between the various levels of the self. 

It is my impression that the popular Neopagan worship/magick is oriented 
along precisely these lines, interacting ('mediating') the 'gods' (which
could be considered identical to the 'demons' of which you speak,
especially if one also engages the wrathful sorts) and thereafter building
the Temple of Babel. :>

Of course not all Neopagans prefer to undertake this sort of work, but
those who are serious are working that through, in my experience.  A firm
grounding in ceremonial theory or practice usually helps solidify some
working method within the Neopagan celebratory system.  In its best and
most popular contexts this takes the form of the 'esbat'.


|the "holy gaurdian angel" is often best regarded as that which 
|the point of perception of control, the symbol using tool is a reflection
|and tool of. 

Comparable to the theory that what we see of ourselves is a 3-dimensional
manifestation of the incarnation of a 4th-dimensional being.  Cf Flatland.


|...HGA == level of self makes of the knowledge and conversation
|an interior dialogue. 

I'm unconvinced that it is interior except in particular cases.  My own
experience is that while it is most directly interior I also occasionally
have conversations with perceptual filtration-objects.  That is, sometimes
I ask the All a question and it responds directly within my perceptual
field.  This may or may not be 'interior', but it is certainly not the
same as having the conversation contained within oneself completely.


|the often useful perception that it is other than this
|can be regarded as a conscious link between the self and the universe.

|HGA == other than self makes of the knowledge and
|conversation a communication between the individual and the presumed
|universal mind.

This is also the function of the Oath of the Abyss, wherein we accept
that the All has us within the context of itself for purposes which it
may know and that we are set about a particular course, each event in
our lives a direct dealing between All and us (the conversation).


|immediately following the attainment of the knowledge and conversation of
|the holy gaurdian angel, the first thing done in the abramelin operation
|is the evoking and bringing under control of the 'princes of the evil of
|the world' which are now held to be subject to the operator's control.

And that is why I have difficulty with it, since I prefer to interact with
the daemons/dakini less aggressively, in a less control-oriented manner.
Compare brute force techniques to martial arts.  Direct opposition is not
always the most effective method.

Mu