From: NocTifer (tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com) Kali Yuga 49950423 [ hapi k@s dee ] |Quoting anonymous sources |>ditto ...it is rather easy to portray oneself in many different ways through writing. My main interest is in what Darkpath folx do OFFline. DO. I've heard lots of theory and mythic association and I do agree that these do form a kind of inspiration for the Darkness in the lives of those who persistently write these things about themselves, but it still doesn't say what the RESULT (or origins if we are serious about our claims) of that identification is aside from controversy and 'gee wiz oh wow cool I'm dark and bad' that gets so many goths and vampires their jollies. We're dealing with images here, and words, all of which may be sculpted by the adept into horrific images without basis in the physical world. Oooooo, I'm a Satan worshipper. Ooooooo. How does this *manifest* in my life? Oh, let's not get into that. I might have to admit that I'm like most of the rest of this fad -- a shocker and a mocker. I'm not saying anything about anyone specific here, just complaining about the lack of substance in most Darkpath and Satanist forums. |...many intelligent Satanists _realize_ that it's not in their best |interests to be puclicly identified with the "Satanist" scene. I'm not sure this is true. Well, sure, if you mean REALLY public (i.e. in everyday life, offline, away from the light-show of periodicals), then I agree completely. Otherwise I think that there are some definite advantages, socially, to identify with those whom you find intriguing or 'on top of things'. ...a Christian (and to lesser extent Muslim) attitude toward what some call 'Satanism'. I.e. they typically now castigate very typical 'pagan' religions as 'Satanism' when they appear to represent heresy (that which flows opposite to the fundi extremity). Sometimes this does include NAM-folx, sometimes not. The point is that 'Satanist' has replaced 'Witch' as the condemnation-label of choice (much as 'Asshole' and 'Idiot' has replaced 'White Lighter' or 'Self-styled' within the Satanic community). Everybody likes to complain about somebody. There is always someone 'not doing it right' somewhere, and these get called by various names at various times. For religious purposes within a largely JCI culture the label has become 'Satanist' and this is has been 'Pagan' and 'Witch' and 'Jew' (and, looking way back, even 'Christian') in the past. I think it is valuable to have imbeciles as part of one's religion. It gives the 'other religions' (and the surrounding culture) something to be afraid of (which keeps some distance) and gives those of us who are only concerned with castigation and wrong-finding someone on whom to focus our prejudicial and biased condemnation. |...it's likely that many intelligent Satanists choose to stay out of the |public eye. Of *course*. It is *always* easier to do one's own thing and keep clear of the public conscience. Coming into the limelight only leads to the cycle of glorification and then destruction at the hands of new heroes. On the other hand, there is a certain amount of truth in saying that those who aren't out in the open about their religion are not being true to the Devil -- i.e. they are only partially Satanist due to the inconvenience of fully acknowledging their devotions. I think it is wonderful that Satanism involves the USELESS. It reminds me of Taoism in this way, though much more wrathful. Everything doesn't revolve around the intellect. Some 'idiots' are quite emotionally-charged. [re: Satanists and Neopagans/New Agers] |...We may not like each other very much, but we sure as hell need each |other. And any thinking person will conclude, upon even the most |cursory examination of the evidence, that the "Satanic crime" hysteria |is bunk. I've been watching this on the Net for years now. I was likely the first of the online community to seriously, consistently and flatly challenge the Neopagan notions of Satanism, bringing it to them in their newsgroup alt.pagan on a regular basis for several months. This appears to have led to (or paralleled at least) a gradual understanding among the more intellectually-based that there is an Establishment Shell Game afoot, and that we're all being duped into trading Stooge-like whaps to each others' heads. That alerts people to instances of the deceit, but doesn't stop us from believing in the Grand Illusion. Many intelligent people did not have *access* to evidence which contradicted the Satanic crime hysteria. Raised on Christian nightmares it is not too difficult to understand why Neopagans would believe the crap portrayed by the SRA business. The concept of Satanists and Neopagans *needing each other*, at least in Usenet, is a NEW ONE, one I'm happy to continue feeding it. There have been few who would support such a controversial stand, the Neopagans calling us 'Evil' and the Satanists 'weak'. I'm happily donning both monikers (less often 'weak', but I'll work on it) and I notice a slough of both groups now cross-posting between alt.pagan and alt.satanism. I think that this is a very positive sign. The "intelligent" Satanists have previously merely castigated the Neopagans for their blatant and rude antics in reaction to the SRA business. I found Michael Aquino, for example, to be quite closed-minded about the usefulness of attempting some sort of dialog between himself and the head of the Church of All Worlds. Therein is a symbolism of the Great Divide. I would say that Michael Aquino is involved with AMER, to his credit, but at least within the ONLINE community I didn't find his attitude at all cooperative. |...they're likely to at least listen to you long enough for you to prove |that you're not a raving idiot. That varies too. What's happening is that Satanism is being defined in ways which limit its effectiveness, and this because it must be rechar- acterized so as to fit within the knowledge-structures of those to whom we may be defining it. It is an alchemy of sorts, the New Age White Lighters beginning to understand that the Darkness might have 'positive aspects' while the Satanists and Darksiders focus on these 'positive aspects' in order to be understood (see ...example of this below). The plain fact is that the negative is as or more important to the Satanist and Darkpath culture, but as usual the co-opting has begun and moralizing is normalizing those who exemplify the core emotional charge of the path itself. ...I think it is very valuable to initially oppose one's dominant cultural values. Even if this draws one into formally and strongly defining oneself with respect to it. This is what the New Agers and Neopagans have done in their immaturity also. It is a part of the life-cycle of a cult and the development of the Satanist, just as Anton LaVey so wisely points out. ...Fundamentalism is the unripened state of religion. We don't burn the bud because it has not flowered. We do not whip the lemon flower because it has not yet generated lemons. We DO enslave and castigate children because they have not yet become 'adults'. Fundamentalists have their value, if nothing else to preserve a very specific and formalized version of the religion of which they are a part. I've learned much from fundamentalists of all stripes. And far from merely rejecting the Heretic, the fundamentalist usually has a very specific agenda which includes the mouthing of particular esoteric concepts poorly understood. Some have memorized these so well that I have used them as reflectors of the esoteric element of their religion when they were able to separate witnessing from condemnation. |>I find this situation infuriating. |As do I. Good. Go with that. Feel the fury. Act on it. Go to an 'Asshole Satanist' and RELEASE IT UPON THEM. They are the True Priests of Angst. They are the Ministers of Mayhem. I shall be their Poop if they so desire. Rail against Us to Our face rather than to your Comrades in Arms. EXPRESS THE ANGER TO THE PERCEIVED SOURCE. Then, if you can, remain aware of what happens. Try to stay present. Be open for Unexpected Results. |...how do we _channel_ that anger and rebelliousness and allow it to vent |in productive and constructive ways? This is the Newagism of which I spoke above. You see the focus here on 'channeling away bad emotions'? Instead of experiencing them to their fullest (something adolescents are thrust into by virtue of their changing hormones), we focus on 'venting them elsewhere'. Also note the focus on 'productivity' and 'construction'. The JCI cultures all center on Creation, Production, Construction, Making, Positing, Adding, Joining, Unity, Harmony and, of course, Light. What I see happening within most of the sects of the Great Martyrdom Cult is that an association gets toggled and so on the surface the social milieu appears to change, but at its base it retains most of its programming. This is why I like to associate Darkness with Destruction, Laziness, Cutting, Ending, Dissolving, Negating, Separating, Diversity and Discord. It is why a number of Neopagans and Satanists (so called) cling to the 'immature' notions about chaos and disintegrative ethics and metaphysics, often being utterly and temporarily reactionary. |How do we express a righteous anger at a society which is constrictive and |repressive, while at the same time avoiding unnecessary conflict? The problem is that we are, on the whole, NOT TRAINED TO KNOW WHAT CONFLICT IS NECESSARY. We think that avoiding conflict _=_ peace, we think that confrontation is rude and that expressing 'negative emotions' (especially anger) is contrary to the general welfare. I'm here to tell you that that is largely bullshit, designed to support the group rather than the individual, the established norms rather than innovation, immaturity rather than the transformation which these passions can bring. I think that laws are restrictive boundaries that society lays out in order to protect the group and that more often than not it also conditions people to avoid self-esteem, self-respect and independence. Given this, most organizations and most states are repressive to their core, and those who would grapple with this *MUST*, I repeat, *MUST* seriously consider the value of transgressing the laws and customs of the culture in which they find themselves. Doing things which people find 'repulsive' and/or 'not acceptable' and even illegal can become rites of personal evolution. It is difficult to know what someone needs to do to unfold and mature. Intelligence is a necessary component of mature Satanism. As it occludes the *other* necessary components (e.g. anger, fear, rebellion), then it outlives its value quickly and becomes something other than Satanism. To a great extent the Temple of Set has proven this out. |...If there were more good Satanic material out there, maybe you'd be able |to provide a counterbalance to those imbeciles who have read _The Satanic |Bible_, listened to a few heavy metal albums, and then set themselves up as |"Satanists." They *are* Satanists. Just as much as any 'Christian' who goes to church on Sundee, reads snippets from the Good Book and watches Reverend Falwell or Graham on the teevee is truly Christian. We take these sorts who integrate a veneer over their ordinary life and call it 'religious' as representative of the majesty which is the Christian path. I don't see why the same style of Satanists shouldn't be just as easily accepted, except that the people you are talking about tend to be COUNTER-CULTURAL (in limited, sometimes self-destructive ways). That makes them DANGEROUS (and, I argue, *trans- formative*). I will be posting my remarks here to public forums to seed precisely the kind of counter-argument to these typical 'get rid of the idiots and things will be ok' assertions. I'd also like Diane's and Kevin's (offlist or no) approval to reproduce their words, even if anonymously, but I don't expect this. NocTifer the Asshole Satanist tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com --------------------------- The Darkness dwells in us all, the seething fury of insane gibbering and howling at unknown fears and boundaries. Some of us become this Darkness, instead of keeping it hidden inside, and these are the true Walkers of the Dark Path, regardless of any names or proclamations or beliefs.