Path: shell.portal.com!shell.portal.com!not-for-mail From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.misc,alt.evil,alt.misanthropy Subject: Re: Is Satanism a Legal Religion? Date: 29 Jun 1996 02:07:23 -0700 Organization: Portal Communications (shell) Lines: 85 Sender: tyagi@shell.portal.com Message-ID: <4r2rob$t1g@jobe.shell.portal.com> References: <4qflo7$q8b@news.cerf.net> <4qmac4$ckn@news.internetmci.com> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) NNTP-Posting-Host: jobe.shell.portal.com Xref: shell.portal.com alt.satanism:46180 alt.magick.tyagi:9050 talk.religion.misc:227047 alt.evil:27595 alt.misanthropy:1199 kaliyuga 49960629 AA1 (this should be fun) slcjb@dames.com (Jolette Bush): |I am looking for legal proof or documentation that Satanism is or is not |>a religion and therefore protected under the same Amendment to the.. |>Constitution which guarantees freedom of religion. I need actual citations |>and/or court cases check out the Armed Services Manual of Religions. it's in there, so I imagine that this is sufficient. Xina : |There is absolutely NO provision in the US Constitution (thankfully for |all the rest of us of neo-Pagan traditions) that Satanism is not a |legally recognized religion. another has already pointed out the overgeneralization of this claim. |Satanism as a religion, the same as Christianity, Buddism, Islam, |Hinduism, Druidism, Asatru, Wicca, etc. is protected under the |Constitution and First Amendment rights, .... actually *anything* done in the names of these religions are not protected by thes documents. if violence or a breach of laws is involved then there may be restrictions levied. |...a precedent that bodes ill for all religions. ... with this I agree, though I would point out that there are certain elements of Satanic practice which are currently illegal: * (consensual) human sacrifice * many forms of necromancy * public rites of orgiastic delight * private sodomous ritual acts these four are arguably traditionally associated with Satanism and most are illegal in various parts of the country in which I live (US). the first is illegal everywhere that I'm aware, the second where it involves the exhuming of corpses or in many cemeteries even the presence during night-time (when the rites are arguably best), the third is illegal in most places, and the fourth in the more conservative areas. this doesn't even take into account the types of practices which HAVE taken place by the most extreme Satanists (ones which I would personally oppose), such as: * ritual murder/genocide * desecration of cemeteries and churches * animal torture many Satanists argue that these are 'not Satanists' and that 'only deluded teenagers and sociopaths do these things'. while I'd agree with that latter assessment, I do think that that they constitute 'Satanists', just those whose practice is overly extreme and includes actions which I'd personally oppose. the debate over what constitutes 'legitimate' Satanism is at times more intense within the Satanic community than within that of the Neopaganism, and it touches to the heart of wht should be considered 'real religion'. I hope that my own position here is clear -- I don't support coercion of any animals. I don't support defining someone's Satanism for them. in some of these cases obviously laws and Constitution/Bills do in fact proscribe certain practices, whether you consider them to be part of the religion or not (which I do if performed intentionally as such, even through it may trespass the sociopathic). please not that my views are not apparently common within the Satanic community as a whole, which is apparently more conservative and more prone to indulge in disrespect toward other people's Satanism. tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com nocTifer -- Ensure my response - CC public replies to email http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/nagasiva.html (emailed replies may be posted) check: http://www.paranoia.com/coe/