Path: shell.portal.com!shell.portal.com!not-for-mail From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.pagan,alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.misc Subject: Re: Satanists - An Enemy? (Was: Satanist/NeoPagan War) Date: 26 Jun 1996 23:04:12 -0700 Organization: Portal Communications (shell) Lines: 144 Sender: tyagi@shell.portal.com Message-ID: <4qt88s$20l@jobe.shell.portal.com> References: Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) NNTP-Posting-Host: jobe.shell.portal.com Xref: shell.portal.com alt.satanism:46011 alt.pagan:164313 alt.magick.tyagi:8983 talk.religion.misc:226706 kaliyuga 49960626 AA1 Cher : |Fear, anger, ignorance and arrogance (we are better) can indeed be an |enemy, but is that what satanists portray or is that what others portray |about satanists? by and large the greatest degree of slander happens ABOUT Satanists, and as a result of the yet-to-be-ended Christian Nightmare. there are many who identify themselves as Satanists who oppose the establishment and in some cases these individuals have sociopathic tendencies on account of their rejection of traditional paradigms and ethics (moving back to 'eye-for-an- eye' from 'turn-the-other-cheek', for example). by and large Satanists portray themselves in an elitist manner as many other religious do, though one based upon some wonderful realization of the benefits of might-makes-right or some science-enshrouded manifest- destiny claims regarding reason and 'the rational animal'. |Am I so familiar with others making presumptions about myself that I |have begun to accept it as a thing to do? typically this is not the case, and I notice that a great many Satanists have hair-triggers regarding their defense even though they are using a predominantly condemned label for self-identification with hundreds of years of pent-up psychosis (the Christian Nightmare) behind it. this is all to be expected, for the Great Martyrdom Cult draws in even unconscious participants who manifest the label and character of the Shadow of Society for the Grand Psychoanalysis, the Great Awakening. the typical indignation which newbie Satanists and Witches and whatnot evince is merely a testimony to their ignorance about the prevailing social winds against which they pit themselves and a self-fulfilling martyrdom which we of the GMC apparently need to work out within our religion (I identify as one since I have had this martyrdom-obsession pointed out to me by my closest kin). |...look at each person, and then to look beyond each person. |...NOT to open [close?] the doors to the enemy; and to give everyone a |chance -- just as I have done with Wiccans, Witches, Druids and others in |the past... and then give them another chance, and if necessary, another. |...remember the web and that satanists are a part of that web. |The web -- something which is more important to me than the arguments, |definitions, individual beliefs, etc. this is very beautiful and displays the true compassion and openness which the adoption of labels like 'Satanist' make possible. I caution you against too wide a berth, however, as some Satanists do appear to wander the edges of our own humanity. |...the decision can wait; and it should wait until the real enemy is |battled... until the fear, hate, ignorance, anger and arrogance |is no more. Then the vote would be true and honest. now you have it. the fear and hate and ignorance anger and arrogance are manifestations of the social SHADOW, and these will arise not only in response to Condemned Religion, but also to Condemned Politics. this is why there is a nexus-point surrounding Neonazism and Satanism, around Dark Paganism and Neonazism, and what will eventually come up as White Supremacism and Jihad! groups. these are all borderlands where the most objectionable elements of human existence manifest, often squashed by the prevailing culture in a demonization, just to remanifest later in more ugly forms. |...I'm not asking at this time to understand what a satanist is or |isn't; wise, for I contend that there is a Satanism for every Satanist, and those who attempt to define one brand as 'Real Satanism' are just pissing in the wind, playing that Game Of Deception. |but to learn what the fear, hate, ignorance, and anger is. it is a deep pain which results from human violence everwhere and may well shift and move from travesty to travesty, be connected with all human alienation and subjugation as manifested by what some feminists call 'the Patriarchy' (I don't personally know if that Chimera exists either), with about as much substances as the Native American 'White Man' (there is something really that did happen, but these are merely a Bogey (myth) against which the repressed or the oppressive rail). |If satanists are considered pagan or neopagan what do you think will |happen in the future? the fear is usually that either the reputation (it is a struggle amongst competing religious minorities for recognition and 'legitimacy', you see) of the religion in question ('Neopaganism' or 'Paganism') will be tarnished, or that we shall have to face certain emotional and political elements of our community which we would rather avoid. not only this, it could lead to a diffusion of the identity personally associated with the labels in question, and we tend to be very attached to our labels. |What harm or good do you think it will do? harm - I've mentioned some of it. some controversial elements of religion will of course have to be faced. if there is true freedom of religion within Neopaganism and in the cultures in which these appear then you'll have animal-sacrificers, neonazi skinheads, reactionary anti-Christians, orgiastics, etc., etc., and the harm is that we'll have to face confrontation with these individuals (which could be dangerous in some cases!) as we ask them to take their objectionable language and behaviors elsewhere. it is as much a generational as a class issue. good - it may make possible a true renaissance of religion within those communities which can allow this type of diversity to take place while setting firm boundaries where these contradict local community standards and prevailing cultural laws. |How will it make a difference in your own path? it might make it easier for me to continue to integrate into the local neopagan community (though I have few worries about this). it may make it easier to avoid persecution and violence on account of my preferences of worship and identification. it may allow me to turn my focus upon the more important elements of diversity and imagination within my religion and the culture in which this takes place (since my ideas and the way I put my values into practice are in some measure at odds with a great many around me even while my practical religious forms, some of the values and attitudes I have are fairly identical or very similar). it may also make possible a coalition whereby the rights of religious minorities are not squashed by prejudice, fear and ignorant condemnation. tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com nocTifer -- Ensure my response - CC public replies to email http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/nagasiva.html (emailed replies may be posted) check: http://www.paranoia.com/coe/