Path: shell.portal.com!shell.portal.com!not-for-mail From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer/TOKUS) Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.satanism,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.all-worlds,alt.religion,talk.religion.newage,talk.religion.misc,alt.christnet,soc.religion.christian Subject: Satanism and Paganism (was Honoring the Eart, etc.) Date: 23 Jun 1996 05:14:25 -0700 Organization: Portal Communications (shell) Lines: 117 Sender: tyagi@shell.portal.com Message-ID: <4qjcf1$8sq@jobe.shell.portal.com> References: <4pkpee$dqu@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <4pks9k$o@news.internetmci.com> <4pn3ok$rv4@news.internetmci.com> <4pv4mt$1eg@jobe.shell.portal.com> <31C837EC.2A4E@EnterAct.com> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer/TOKUS) NNTP-Posting-Host: jobe.shell.portal.com Xref: shell.portal.com alt.pagan:163755 alt.satanism:45772 alt.magick.tyagi:8860 alt.religion.all-worlds:8069 alt.religion:2456 talk.religion.newage:53276 talk.religion.misc:225960 alt.christnet:115756 soc.religion.christian:80994 kaliyuga 49960623 AA1 Kaus Day!! Nuwisha : |...Most pagans view Satanism as specifically the worship of a |Christian devil. the very term 'devil' is Christian itself. those who understand that the Christian terminology is a projected filter can translate accordingly. the devils of the Christian establishment are the old gods. Satan is their champion manifesting at first within and then alongside that tradition. |...alot of Satanist believe the Christans bastardized their God |therfore making them Pagan, well, I can't say that, since Satan appears to be a Golem constructed by the Christian etablishment as a bogey to scare the masses into conformity. we've since seized control of that Golem and are now utilizing it ANY WAY WE PLEASE, even against the establishment itself! (my own discovery is that there is a wealth of material to support the association of Satan and WILD NATURE -- considering the anti-ecological idiocy which passes for the orthodox Christian establishment, this makes lots of sense too!). |[there] are Satanists who do worship a form of backwards Christianity |which for the most part focuses on evil. 'evil' is another one of those propaganda concepts. you pick what you want to eliminate, call it 'evil' and then try to get everyone to agree that 'evil must be destroyed'. what they don't tell you is that the referents to 'evil' change over time based upon political motives and language obfuscation. this is the reason that the terms for the Great Martyrdom Cult must continually change until they get the upper hand. |Whether the Christians did or didn't bastardize ancient Gods that they did is undeniable. everything not Christian is 'pagan'? please. reminds me of everything not Jewish is 'goyish' or whatever the term is (I don't know my Judaism). most of the 'lists of demons' include ancient pagan gods. |...most Christians beieve in an incarnation of absolute evil which |actively opposes their God which is absolute good. yes, a replication of the Zoroastrian dualism. most Satanists don't fall for this, but there are still a few who do (even Neopagans go for it still from their early children programming!). |It is this brand of Satanism [from which] ...the Pagan community wants |to divorce itself .... quite. they don't want to be pummelled by the Golem-Bogey which the Christians are still operating to great scare-tactic effect. it keeps changing forms though. recently it change to 'Satanic Ritual Abuse', for example. gradually it'll be co-opted and the Christians will have to become more honest and less self-delusionary. |...I don't feel the Pagan community harbors any ill feelings towards |those who worship the "dark" Gods, these Gods in my opinion are not |in any way incarnations of absolute evil. there ARE NONE. the concept of 'absolute evil' is part of the Golem. believe in it at your peril. instead, define what it is you are talking about when you say 'evil' and keep that in mind. that it is any sort of 'absolute' is as unconvincing (and deceptive and crazy!) as the Golem-constructed 'black magick' or the idiotic 'real pagans'! |They seem more of the destruction aspect to me which one could hardly |call evil. there are Destroyer-gods just as there are Creator-gods. the Christians focus on creation at the expense of everything else (the biosphere, the wrathful gods, compost, etc.). |What should be attempted is a clear way to differentiate between |Satanists and Christian Satanist. NOT NECESSARY! the Christian Satanists are glitches. they are like ephemeral caterpillars, transforming into heretics and sloughing off into the outlying Neopagan and Satanist (not the Bogey now but the Neopagan infusion into that Golem directed at various counter-tacts) communities. accept ANYONE who says they are a Satanist and reject their silly violence tactics (put them in jail if they get sociopathic, just don't figure that all the labels apply the same any more than they do with any other religion. they will try to confuse you bring up all manner of horrid political bogeys (this is to be expected). denying their religious and/or poolitical identity is PRECISELY what the Christian establishment has been doing to everyone else (calling us all 'devil-worshippers') for centuries. well, NOW there ARE devil-worshippers coming about, though these 'devils' are the old gods (in some cases in new guises). some (Neopagans) merely distance themselves from the rhetoric of the Christian condemnation (e.g. CAW). others (Satanists) are actively on the front lines, retaking these gods and simultaneously opposing the establishment for the benefit of us all. HAIL SATAN!!!!! tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com nocTifer/TOKUS (The Order of Kaos Under Satan) -- Ensure my response - CC public replies to email http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/nagasiva.html (emailed replies may be posted) check: http://www.paranoia.com/coe/