From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.satanism,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,alt.christnet Subject: Re: the truth about Satan Followup-To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,alt.christnet Date: 14 Sep 1997 14:03:30 -0700 Organization: Bay Junction Technology, Inc. Lines: 87 Sender: tyagi@news.bjt.net Message-ID: <5vhjf2$t9u@bay1.bjt.net> References: <01bcb2a1$ce7b5800$025bbec7@lakes.ring.com> <19970828064401.CAA19466@ladder01.news.aol.com> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) NNTP-Posting-Host: bay1.bjt.net Path: bridge!not-for-mail Xref: bridge alt.magick.tyagi:14934 alt.magick:118408 alt.satanism:80698 talk.religion.misc:323872 talk.religion.newage:80044 alt.christnet:305959 49970914 aa2 Hail Satan! (take this thread out of alt.magick; followup-set) meltdarok@aol.com (MeltDaRok): # How can it ever be a good move to rebel against your most perfect creator? # He was never declined of Jehovah's love, he just refused to receive it. from this perspective you omit the possibility that the fallen angels were distinctly DESIGNED to choose this. # Lucifer's power has always been limited to what he can beg off of Jehovah. no, 'Lucifer' was a King of Babylon who probably didn't care much for the Jewish chieftain god. that later Christians made this into a rebellion story, conflating the apocryphal Enoch and its constellation of texts (Azazel, whoever else) does nothing to change this. that Dante and Milton wrote other fictional stories to support the popular Christian cosmology to its mazdan-dualist conclusions only testifies to their extremity. # He might not be ultimate evil, since he was, is, or will be a human # himself; but as a human, he represents the ultimate human wickedness. there are many conceptions of the Devil in Christianity, from Jehovah's malak assistant who seeks out and tests possible rebels, to the Great Antagonist bogey used to scare peasants and children into conformity. 'evil' is just some behavior that we don't like, nothing more or less. # if you meet him, you may love him, but don't turn your back on him for the # half of a fraction of a microsecond. as regards Satan, I am inclined to agree, but only because Satan has been shafted so many times by humans that SHe can no longer be trusted to maintain a convivial relationship with Hir summoner. Asprin's humorous 'Myth Adventure' series deals with this a little ('DEMONshunal travellers'). # (In fiction, man closes in on him in works such as "Bedazzled," with # Dudley Moore, "Sympathy for the Devil," by the Stones, and the # character "Tempest" on "Lois and Clark.") there is a long history (esp. American) of befuddling and outwitting Satan. it is a kind of folklore which gave the underclasses a leg up on those who would otherwise use the egregore to enslave. # The only thing he will give you is a smile while you face him, # by his very nature he *cannot* keep his promises. this goes too far of course. it is the projection of the guilty Christian who cannot live up to hir own overblown standards of 'virtue'. Satan can indeed provide more than a smile. this is why there are many stories of pacts. even the fictional stories of Jesus include the real temptation with Satan offering worldly power. talk to the conservatives of Christian and Muslim persuasion. Satan/Iblis is a power to be reckoned with in the material world. their gods are far away in a dream world promising afterlife reward. Satan is here and now, offering the elect a position of power in return for service and dedication. # Ha! If you meet him it only means that *you* have something that *he* # wants to extract from *you*. More often than not, you *won't* recognize # him as he approaches you to beguile you. (Time Bandits) there is often a deal which can be made. Satan is as much the Instructor as the Trickster. to disrespect Hir is a mistake and self-defeating. # Supposedly, it is only the priest (ordained or not) that can give the true # answers that the scholars search for. that is just a lie told by the church to enslave the poor folk. it is true that the priests are more likely to be aware of the details of the Great Martyrdom Cult's lies, but even a number of them are deluded and completely submerged in the fantasy. have a care with any priest that contends that she is an authority on Satan, whether Christian, Satanist or otherwise. blessed beast! ________________________________________________________________________ nocTifer: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com --- http://www.abyss.com/tokus TOKUS-COE Office: 408/2-666-SLUG --- Mother Church (CoE) coe@netcom.com -- (emailed replies may be posted);join the AMT syncretism!!;call: 408/2-666-SLUG! see http://www.abyss.com/tokus; "Clement of Rome taught that God rules the world with a right and a left hand, the right being Christ, the left Satan." - CGJung