Path: shell.portal.com!shell.portal.com!not-for-mail From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (tyagi/TOKUS) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.wicca,alt.satanism,alt.pagan Subject: Asshole Satanism (TOKUS; Was Re: Some Neutral Ground Here...) Date: 14 Apr 1995 15:05:56 -0700 Organization: Portal Communications (shell) Lines: 127 Sender: tyagi@shell.portal.com Message-ID: <3mmrk4$i03@jobe.shell.portal.com> References: <3m1vcs$hf@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> <3m3o5i$ue5@uwm.edu> <3m6hm8$em8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (tyagi/TOKUS) NNTP-Posting-Host: jobe.shell.portal.com Xref: shell.portal.com alt.magick.tyagi:2822 alt.religion.wicca:2648 alt.satanism:17505 alt.pagan:99195 Kali Yuga 49950414 The Mean "Mr. Scratch" writes: |...why does our set of beliefs attract so many adolecent assholes? My favorite subject. :> I love how you write, Mr.Scratch! 1) Satanism is not a single 'set' of beliefs. Like most religious complexes it is comprised of many different and varied concepts and practices which may be contended and defended by those who associate with the label. Some (me, for instance) don't even require the adherence to any stable ideas in terms of ethics or metaphysics. 2) Adolescence is a difficult time in life. It is a time when a youth is venturing forth, attempting to throw off the yokes placed upon hir by hir parents (usually she is not sufficiently potent to also throw off the yokes of the surrounding culture). It is therefore a BETWEEN-time, a time of uncertainty, of personal assertion, rebellion and anguish. 3) Satanism is one of a number of symptom-cults whose existence indicate the adolescence of the passing of the dominant Christian culture. That is, among a number of Neopagan groups/cults/sects, Satanism represents a throwing off of the old guard, a challenging to established norms, most specifically, a grasping firmly to that power, that adolescent angst in the cause of individuality and freedom. 4) The term 'asshole' is often used to denigrate those whose angry and contrary ways are difficult for us to oppose or work with in some comfortable fashion. The appellation 'adolescent' to this (a common English usage) indicates a difficulty on the part of the speaker with the vivifying, rebelliousness of youth and its refusal to conform to the established norms. The reason that 'so many adolescent assholes' are drawn to Satanism is that its root source incorporates both socially-condoned and socially- condemned behaviors, refined by discipline from the latter to the former in the case of maturity born of experiment and philosophic exploration. To reject these individuals from our midst is not only an attempt to deny their very real emotions (something which men are typically trained to do in at least American culture anyway), but also to deny the fact that we have *all* had the experiences and feelings which they make plain and parade before us to our lasting discontent. Our unsettlement betrays our *own* lack of maturity, and the way we interact with these young adults exemplifies the degree of our wisdom as a culture and as individuals. |Certainly the more intellegent of us shake our heads and roll our eyes, |whenever some social-reject does something obnoxious in the name of |"Satanism". It is much easier to make a show of impatience and supposed 'maturity' through labelling of something and rejecting it as a group or individual. It is much more difficult to engage it directly, attempt to connect with with it, absorb it (or hir, as the case may be), enjoining a mutual and serious educational exchange. |(I must add here, that "asshole-Satanism" has a well-spoken defender; |Tyagi. His occasionlly-convincing arguements aside, I will speak my own |opinions here.) I am happy to be associated with the asshole-Satanism. This is in part the basis of the name of my division of the Order of Kaos (TOKUS), a clear reference not only to 'assholes' but also to the kissing upon the ass required by Satan to initiates. As above, so below. |Satanism is shocking. It is designed to be shocking. It is supposed to |be a bucket of anti-dogmatic icewater in the face of the *practitioner*. While I agree with this, I also think it extends beyond the 'practitioner'. It can and will become a social trigger of transformation if/when sufficient numbers of people begin to adopt the major elements. If not, then there will be other attempts using different labels (like 'Witch', 'Warlock', 'Sorceror', 'Criminal', or 'Dilettante', depending on the culture). |fuss, but they extinguish themselves quickly. Sometimes they grow up. |sometimes they just get bored and move on to something else. Sometimes |they go to prison. And sometimes they even re-convert to the |Christianity they were rebelling against, and make an even BIGGER fuss |about the rest of us that were not so foolish. However it happens, I say |good riddance. In any case, while they make a lot of noise, they dont last |very long, and so should not be considered representatives of Satanism. Actually, I *do* think that they are representatives of Satanism -- they are representative of the BEGINNINGS of the Satanic path within the lives of the serious and most powerful. Their power drives them to extremes beyond the ability of society to condone, beyond even the culture of so-called 'Satanists', and yet it is still a practice of Satanism. |Those that have an understanding of the history, symbology and a keen |grasp of will, those who understand the creative and powerful |cause-and-effect of the Black Arts; they should be considered the true |representatives. Those who have accomplished. I agree that these are examples of mature Satanists. If you need to see goal-points to characterize the entirety, then look to these, surely, but do not let us make the same mistake as countless other religions and wash out the path for the goal. Many many times within religious communities the goal is promoted as the path and therefore the very core of the Formula is extinguished, only to reappear in other sects, other manifestations. This is what has happened in all of the varities of the Great Martyrdom Cult over time and within Satanism it could be avoided if we are careful. tyagi nagasiva tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com The Order of K@s Under Satan ---------------------------- ...If Dr. Aquino would put the whole CoS breakup behind him, consider it a "learning experience," and go on with his work, I think we'd all be the better for it. Aquino has certainly proven himself to be a profound thinker on other subjects; I'm usually fascinated by everything he has to say _except_ when it deals with Anton Szandor LaVey. kfilan@delphi.com : alt.satanism -- If you wish to be sure I read your response to me, cc me via email. Thanks. Contribute to the Netmage's Consortium Newsgroup: alt.magick.tyagi DivWeb: telnet bill.math.uconn.edu 9393 ** ftp.portal.com/pub/ss/Usenet