From DarkMuse-L@necronomi.com Fri May 5 10:12:02 1995 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA17667 for ; Fri, 5 May 1995 10:12:00 -0700 Received: from uucp.intac.com (uucp.intac.com [198.6.114.27]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA24879 for ; Fri, 5 May 1995 10:11:58 -0700 Received: from necronomi.com (uucp@localhost) by uucp.intac.com (8.6.10/8.6.5) with UUCP id NAA19158; Fri, 5 May 1995 13:03:30 -0400 From: DarkMuse-L@necronomi.com (DarkMuse-ML (Private)) Reply-To: DarkMuse-L@necronomi.com To: DML-repository@necronomi.com, cthulhu@necronomi.com, dvera@met.com, kfilan@netcom.com, tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com, egan@ccsnet.com, lilith@dorsai.org, paulhume@geis.geis.com, suti@crl.com, sarikka@Eng.Auburn.EDU, wednsday@necronomi.com, jpoirot@usa.net, cb05@Lehigh.EDU, corvus@pudu.microserve.com, max@atticus.com, ashton@netcom.com Subject: Fwd: Nazism and Unpopular Satanist Involvements Date: 05 May 1995 10:26:35 GMT Message-Id: <152960990.1977008@necronomi.com> Organization: The Familiar Spirit BBS (201)837-5914 Status: RO From: NocTifer (tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com) Kali Yuga 49950505 > X-Posted from Alt.Satanism > From: Kevin Filan (kfilan@netcom.com) > Date: 05 May 1995 04:59:17 GMT > meinkmpf... exhibits all the traits which many of us here find so > embarassing: an absolute wallowing in his own "Superman" self-image > combined with a distressing lack of social skills. I don't see that here, but I have killfiled him, so perhaps I am missing (or not missing) something. > ...I try asking questions about why it is that he feels fascism/Nazism > is in his best interests: I'm not sure what kind of answer I'll get but > I'll keep everyone here informed. I am very interested in any Asshole Satanist or Fascist Satanist response to these very important questions. I offer my own guesses below. > > What you said earlier, Meinkmpf, is that there were no such > >things as "modern Nazis." I suggested that you were wrong. There are no more WWII Nazis. The reason that this is the case is the very specific stigma which is now attached to the term 'Nazi' which was not part of the Nazi experience prior to WWII. > >..._why_ so many in the Satanist movement seem fascinated with fascism. Reactionary antagonistic politics. Co-opting the terms of deprecation. Stretching the limits of the human experience. Exploring the outer region of societal conditioning. Opposing what is becoming the New Conformity in Satanism. > >It seems to me that a "fascist" society would _not_ be in the > >best interests of _anyone_ who openly espouses "Satanic" ideals. The society would not. Involvement with such a group might. > >...I hardly see how supporting such movements is in the Satanist's > >best interests: and acting against one's own interests, I would say, > >is HIGHLY un-Satanic. It is not always easy to see why someone lies down and invites their mate or friend to begin flogging their backsides, or places clothespins upon their genitalia and rip them off, or gets piercings or tattoos for that matter. Until you experience it, it is difficult to say what the value of it is. Acting against one's perceived interests short-term can be very important when considering LONG-term interests. > >A highly structured governmental system like fascism will certainly > >limit the _true_ "Superior Man." Wolves weed out the herd. Take the wolves away and the flock grows weak. > >...Methinks many a "fascist Satanist" would do well to read Ms. Rand > >and see what kind of society REALLY allows the superior to rise above > >the herd.... Reading a book is no substitute for doing things. Get into a neo-nazi or skinhead group locally if you really want to learn about some of this. It is too new to trust to books. Involving myself with a number of religious cults over the years I can see that just as I might do a bypass of these on a semi-regular basis or be open to their members, I would not purposefully promote their propaganda myself within the greater culture at large. Identifying with them does have its advantages. I consider myself a Jehovah's Witness, for example. Those who promote Fascism without defining what they are saying may well be attempting to identify with that which will scare others so that they will feel a certain kind of power-over-others where they could not in other situations. This fear-as-reaction-to-words is precisely the heart of the Great Martyrdom Cult, whose members utilize terminology in a way designed to explode the hearts and minds of the conventional and normal in society through suggestion of things Maligned and Sociopathic on the surface, while only barely (if that) radical or well-thought-out below this surface. I am sure, however, that there is an inner esoteric to National Socialism that it has such staying power and leverage in at least the German and European society. Like the Satanic Ritual Abuse rant, the WWII German and Jew-Hating Nazi is a bogey. It creates what it attempts to resist and one of the few ways to put a stop to the cycle of Inquisition and radical anti-Inquisition reaction is to co-opt the terms through skewed and intentionally-affected usage. This is somewhat like turning the fist instead of opposing it (judo, other martial arts). If you want to learn what National Socialism (or any type of 'Fascism') *is* then you'll have to go to the political forums/sources and have enough staying power to work past the silly prejudices and weak under- standings. Most people are not economically or politically savvy (I would include myself here, not being well-studied in either of these fields of complexity). Expecting immature adults claiming to be 'nazis' to espouse for you any sort of intellectual reason for the adherence to ideologies intentionally antagonistic to popular Satanist trends is somewhat ludicrous. You'll likely just get spit in your face and learn the intensity of their reactionary emotions. The intellectuals tend to remain outside the fray and behind publications and organizations so as not to have to reveal their true motives or waste their time, and the True Satanist cannot be detected using an ideological, political, economic or theological litmus test. NocTifer (tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com) -------------------------------------- --- Internet Message Header Follows --- Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (root@nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by uucp.intac.com (8.6.10/8.6.5) with ESMTP id EAA10000 for ; Fri, 5 May 1995 04:48:31 -0400 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA19601 for ; Fri, 5 May 1995 01:47:46 -0700 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id BAA04288 for Darkmuse-l@necronomi.com; Fri, 5 May 1995 01:47:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199505050847.BAA04288@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Nazism and Unpopular Satanist Involvements To: Darkmuse-l@necronomi.com (Darkmuse Elist) Date: Fri, 5 May 1995 01:47:45 -0700 (PDT) From: tyagi@HouseofKaos.Abyss.com (NocTifer) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5302 .----------------------------------. | The Familiar Spirit BBS- | |a FirstClass system (201) 837-5914| | necronomi.com (GUI Port 3004) | '----------------------------------'