Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.divination,alt.philosophy.taoism Subject: Re: I Ching -- Coin Method References: <8Lnm8.2241$Na6.199278@monolith.news.easynet.net> From: xiwangmu Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:17:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1016961461 208.201.242.18 (Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:17:41 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:17:41 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:32015 alt.divination:18983 alt.philosophy.taoism:96562 50020324 vi mu: >> ...divinatory hexagram, from bottom line upwards, with the same >> chances of obtaining each hexagram as when using the Yarrow >> Stalk Method (traditional). this argues its superiority. Joel 'Wiggy' Biroco Not really, since the yarrow stalk method known today is reconstructed > and it's not certain that it's asymmetric skewing of the probabilities > were inherent in the original yarrow method, which is quite unknown. then why are so many authors on the subject convinced of the virtue or 'classic' quality of using Yarrow Stalks? they seem taken by the ceremony and duration, the adeptness in the case of street diviners, etc. do they know about the variation between what preceded what they're using and what you're identifying as the original? > The 3 coin method is actually the oldest method extant, Shao Yen promoted it. did it precede him? > which has symmetric probabilities. of variable value. knowing the character of the classic Judgments and Commentaries and how these match up with the emphasis of any method of determination would give one the understanding of symmetry's value. unless one were to break completely with tradition and write your own divinatory text as well as create your own method of consultation. > Personally I believe symmetric probabilities make more sense > since there is no reason why yin or yang should have > differing tendencies towards change since they are polar opposites. Master Huang maintains that the Yarrow is itself considered sacred as a means of conveying information, communicating. are you aware of this? > I believe that the assymetric probabilities built into the > reconstructed yarrow rite do not necessarily represent the > original rite. what informs this belief. do you have comparisons of the projected originals with what you're calling the reconstructed yarrow? > And also that they do not really fit into the conceptual framwork > of yin-yang. but do they fit into the conceptual framework of Chou I? > Rather than make a coin method that mimicks the yarrow rite never my intent, though I enjoyed creating a bibliomantic method that does so. > it would be better to create a yarrow method that has the > symmetric probabilities of the coin method. if one wished these probabilities and sought the feel and substance of Yarrow, agreed. I imagine it would also limber one up for juggling or typing, musical or other artistry. > Yin is always 2, yang always 3, but this doesn't matter greatly since > it is the numbers 6, 7, 8, and 9 that determines the hexagram. It > doesn't matter whether you choose heads or tails to be yang. thanks. mu