To: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.occult
From: (Bill Heidrick)
Subject: Re: (O) Gematria and Other Systems of Numerology
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 15:30:27 GMT


On 31 Dec 1998 06:39:15 -0500, ("Ammar Al-Omary")

>1- Not all of Gemataria is number based. The Notariqon for example 
>relies on condensing sentences into words or expanding words into 
>sentences (e.g. Marlboro "Men Always Remember Ladies Because Of Romance 

Nope.  Technically, "Gematria" means approaches involving number and
manipulation of number corresponding to letters, words and groups of
words, exclusively.  Gematria is a Greek word, used also for the same
thing in Hebrew and more generously applied to other systems of
number-letter correspondence with other alphabets, ancient and modern.

Notariqon is quite different, does not involve number directly and
amounts to working with anagrams, initial, final and medial, as well
as reverse anagrams.

Temurah is a type of crypography, involving paired substitution of
letters, one for another.   There are 24 main forms of Temurah in
traditional Kabbalah.

Where you understand "Gematria", it may be that you are considering
Kabbalah (also spelled in English "Qabalah", "Cabala", "QBLH", "QBL",
and a variety of other ways, some of which may imply particular ethnic
or other traditions.  Qabalah, to take one variant of the spelling,
includes Gematria, Notariqon, Temurah, Literary Criticism, Mysticism
and many other things.

>2- Regarding the comment that using the different methods of Gemataria 
>to make a word mean anything; In 777 Crowley writes something to the 
>effect of : One can argue that with Gemataria one can anything out of 
>nothing but the Qabalist retorts that with these methods One did create 
>Everything out of Nothing.

True, Gematria never proves anything.  It's a vehicle for rhetoric,
meditation, mnemonics, confidence building and an intellectual
equivalent to rhyme.

>I believe that the fact that you can derive any number from any other 
>number is a foundation of Gemataria rather than a weak point. It is not 
>about WHETHER you can derive two words from each other but HOW which 
>will indicate to you the sort of link or realtion the two ideas bear.

True, to a point.  The mechanism of the particular manipulation does
carry some value in itself.  However, elementary associations by one
particular method or mechanism do tend to constitute a group of
relations that would be consistent from one person to another.  That
latter aspect makes gematria a cultural tool.  Otherwise it would be
just a puzzle exercise.

>3- Regarding the comment that words in different languages have 
>different numerical values; any multi-lingual person can tell you that 
>languages do not differ from each other merely by words and grammar, but 
>also by the mode of thinking they operate upon (i.e. if you want to 
>speak Arabic you have to THINK Arabic. Simply knowing Arabic words and 
>grammar does not enable you to automatically translate English into 
>Arabic). So the difference in Lingual-psychology might very well reflect 
>upon Gemataria. I would certainly be astonished if it didn't.
>And by the way in Arabic Gemataria LOVE=10 and WILL=86 or 41.

Also a good point.  When you consider simple methods of gematria and
temura (less effective with noteriqon), you get a similar effect.
That's what I mean when I say "cultural tool".  There is a body of
significance, potentially shaired by everybody who uses a particular
technique in a particular language.  One comences to think with
numbers having significance instead of words.

93 93/93
Bill Heidrick

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