Path: shell.portal.com!svc.portal.com!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!realtime.net!news From: Jess Karlin Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.tarot,alt.magick,alt.divination Subject: Re: Tarot History (was Re: Pamela Smith Deck (was ....)) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 06:49:38 +0000 Organization: Real/Time Communications Internet customer posting Lines: 72 Message-ID: <31DA1802.3D2B@bga.com> References: <4plnie$j5j@crl9.crl.com| <4pmmqd$go9@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4pqk3k$qrp@jobe.shell.portal.com> <4puef3$7pj@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4qemvb$gpa@jobe.shell.portal.com> <235304Z23061996@anon.penet.fi> <4qtcpi$5k9@jobe.shell.portal.com> <4qtj6c$mdi@news.acns.nwu.edu> <4r7evm$akk@news.acns.nwu.edu> <023324Z03071996@anon.penet.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: apm0-40.realtime.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RTcode: 0c04680c31b1591d79da5dc7 X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Xref: shell.portal.com alt.magick.tyagi:9153 alt.tarot:8669 alt.magick:78135 alt.divination:7670 an627449@anon.penet.fi wrote: > > In article <4r7evm$akk@news.acns.nwu.edu>, "Elaine M. Petersen" > wrote: > > >Do what thou will shall be the whole of the Law. > > > >joshua@alkahest.isas.com (joshua geller) wrote: > >>In article <4qtj6c$mdi@news.acns.nwu.edu> "Elaine M. Petersen" > >> writes: > >> > >>> Well, Case and Waite were both, at one time, members of the Golden Dawn. > >>> It seems that Waite did take his vow to conceal the teachings of the > order > >>> seriously, and changed some imagery in his deck in order to maintain his > >>> vow. Case's imagery is actually a bit closer to the GD deck, or so I am > >>> told. > >> > >>but as you point out later the waite deck was much earlier. it is > >>quite obvious that the waite/smith deck influenced the case/parke > >>deck. > > > >I think that this is true. However, I wanted to point out the G.'.D.'. > >connection and let people come to their own conclusions. > > Bosh. How can you think that this is true? You state that Case and Waite > were both members of the GD. You say that Waite, with a few changes, > emulated the GD deck. You say that Case, with fewer changes, also > emulated the GD deck. How can you then agree with Josh that Waite > influenced Case? I don't think such a statement is inaccurate at all. Look at the decks. If they were done today I suspect someone would be litigating against someone else over 'look and feel' issues. Furthermore, Case references Waite constantly, and to suggest he was doing this WITHOUT suggestions or clear indications of 'influence' from Waite (positive or negative) is just silly. There is no question that Case saw himself largely as ammending and clarifying what Waite had designed and written on the tarot. Case certainly felt somewhat less constrained by his 'vows' of secrecy, operating on the rationalization that since the beans will spilt, and should never have been kept in the can anyway, he would now happily spill some more. And in this it is very useful to compare Waite and Case and their writings on the two decks. However, even Case resorts to the same kind of coy hinting and outright distortion of the truth that all occultists seem to think is their medium of exchange to the public. Anyone who would like to see this dynamic at work should compare Levi-Waite-Case on the card, Chariot. There is a particular component of this card (what Waite depicts as a little white square on the chest of the charioteer) that gains in detail and in written explanation as we go through the evolutions from Levi (who describes the thing but does not depict it at all) to Case (who does tell us superficially what it looks like but then intentionally inverts it) of its revealed symbolism. So imagine that kind of silliness is going on all through Waite's deck, which it is. Add to this his natural tendency to both add extremely esoteric details (a lot of it originating in 'fraternal' symbolism that was NEVER intended to be understood properly by the public) and his 'honest' lying, and you have a pretty clear idea of why people write such pathetic bullshit about this most popular deck and its derivations. (jk)