Newsgroups: alt.tarot,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick Path: Supernews!supernews.com!news.IAEhv.nl!news1.netusa.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!azoth From: azoth@netcom.com (Az0th) Subject: Re: Emblems/Symbols, Meditation/Reading and Case-workers (was Re: Plotinus, evil, ....) Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.tarot,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick Organization: Idoigo, Ltd. X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] References: <5lfgta$ghj@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <5m52t5$shh@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <5mf2pv$a28@nntp4.u.washington.edu> <338BFC82.4683@eden.com> Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:02:46 GMT Lines: 35 Sender: azoth@netcom6.netcom.com Xref: Supernews alt.tarot:20282 alt.magick.tyagi:12444 alt.magick:103074 I heard J. Karlin (r3winter@eden.com) say: : I think it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that they : possessed, in relation to the many 'pomos' who look at their : creations, an extraordinary 'esoteric and doctrinal : sophistication'. So it is, as a singular possibility, and not the only or necessarily the most likely or illuminative. The imposing _absence_ of esoteric commentary on the images for a long period following their appearance suggests to _me_ that the images themselves were simply *borrowed* from one or many actual esoteric, philosophical, artistic or literary traditions which fed the Italian Renaissance, and which may have been quite common currency at that time. I'm particularly intrigued by connections that have been drawn between tarot imagery and likely non-magical, or at least non-Qabalistic, sources, such as Dr. Ponce's discovery of the Lovers and Chariot in Plato, or John Opsopaus' connection of the Tower with that of Kronos, overthrown by Zeus, in Pindar, or your own examination of the World WRT the New Jerusalem. It may be possible to account for each of the images in this way, without recourse to any 'esoteric' material at all. It remains to be seen whether, after you've done so, you may still discern a meta-message in the assembly as a whole, and what the nature of such a message might be. IOW, an assumption of esoteric sophistication on the part of the originators of tarot may be prejudicial to a dispassionate consideration of the evidence. In fact, the naive and unsophisticated 'pomo' taroteers you deride may have actually returned to the original modus of tarot creation: claiming the images for their own uses simply because they're cool. Az0th