Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!fs01-sjc1.usenetserver.com!news.webusenet.com!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Reply-To: "Asiya" From: "Asiya" Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.tarot,alt.divination References: <3D6601CC.A6D7674F@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: Tarot and Authority Sources (was talking about ...) Lines: 48 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:57:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.83.72.112 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1030352222 12.83.72.112 (Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:57:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:57:02 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:34438 alt.magick:314962 alt.tarot:108477 alt.divination:20301 "nagasiva" wrote in message news:THga9.14126$Ik.331137@typhoon.sonic.net... > 50020825 VII om > > Asiya: > >> Court de Gebelin was the first to attribute the Hebrew letters to the > >> Tarot Trumps, in his essay 'Du Jeu des Tarots'. In the essay, he > >> attributes the Star to Heh and the Emperor to Tzaddi. Crowley most > >> likely read this essay at some point, considering it is first thing > >> listed in Waite's bibliography for 'Pictorial Key to the Tarot'. > > if you have the text, could you lay out the various Trumps and their > attributions under de Gebelin here in usenet so we can trace it step > by step as it develops into Golden Dawn materials and beyond? thanks. > if not, I may be able to dig it up. since you mentioned.... The sequence is inverted. Thus: XXI. World - Aleph XX. Judgment - Beth XIX. Sun - Gimel XVIII. Moon - Daleth XVII. Star - Heh XVI. Tower - Vau XV. Typhon - Zayin XIV. Temperance - Cheth XIII. Death - Teth XII. Prudence (Hanged Man) - Yod XI. Strength - Kaph X. Fortune - Lamed IX. Hermit - Mem VIII. Justice - Nun VII. Chariot - Samekh VI. Lovers - Ayin V. Hierophant - Peh IV. Emperor - Tzaddi III. Empress - Qoph II. High Priestess - Resh I. Magician - Shin 0. Fool - Tau Asiya Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator-sterling!news-in.nuthinbutnews.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!news.arcor.de!not-for-mail From: ~tiny ibis~ Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.tarot,alt.divination Subject: Re: Tarot and Authority Sources (was talking about ...) Followup-To: alt.magick.tyagi Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 21:56:22 +0200 Organization: ibis tec Lines: 82 Message-ID: <1128638.PlyArG6xLi@ibis.local> References: <3D6601CC.A6D7674F@pacbell.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p5084316d.dip.t-dialin.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: newsread1.arcor-online.net 26677 NG d2ludGVyYmx1ZQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@arcor-online.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:55:16 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: KNode/0.6.1 Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:34439 alt.magick:315010 alt.tarot:108496 alt.divination:20302 > Asiya wrote: > > "nagasiva" wrote in message > news:THga9.14126$Ik.331137@typhoon.sonic.net... >> 50020825 VII om >> >> Asiya: >> >> Court de Gebelin was the first to attribute the Hebrew letters to > the >> >> Tarot Trumps, in his essay 'Du Jeu des Tarots'. In the essay, he >> >> attributes the Star to Heh and the Emperor to Tzaddi. Crowley > most >> >> likely read this essay at some point, considering it is first > thing >> >> listed in Waite's bibliography for 'Pictorial Key to the Tarot'. >> >> if you have the text, could you lay out the various Trumps and their >> attributions under de Gebelin here in usenet so we can trace it step >> by step as it develops into Golden Dawn materials and beyond? > thanks. >> if not, I may be able to dig it up. since you mentioned.... > > The sequence is inverted. Thus: > > XXI. World - Aleph > XX. Judgment - Beth > XIX. Sun - Gimel > XVIII. Moon - Daleth > XVII. Star - Heh > XVI. Tower - Vau > XV. Typhon - Zayin > XIV. Temperance - Cheth > XIII. Death - Teth > XII. Prudence (Hanged Man) - Yod > XI. Strength - Kaph > X. Fortune - Lamed > IX. Hermit - Mem > VIII. Justice - Nun > VII. Chariot - Samekh > VI. Lovers - Ayin > V. Hierophant - Peh > IV. Emperor - Tzaddi > III. Empress - Qoph > II. High Priestess - Resh > I. Magician - Shin > 0. Fool - Tau > > Asiya De Gebelin, in his essay "Du Jeu des Tarots", mentions the Hebrew alphabet only once, when he says: "L'ensemble des XXI ou XXII Atous, les XXII Lettres de l'Alphabet Egyptien commun aux Hebreux et aux Orientaux, et qui servant de chiffres, sont necessaires pour tenir compte de l'ensemble de tant de contrees", i.e. he simply equates the Egyptian Alphabet with the Hebrew alphabet. In his discussion of Trump I (Le Joueur de Gobelets, ou Bateleur), in preparation of Compte de Mellets companion article, he mentions that "it seems, however, that the Egyptians began to count with the highest value, to descend from there to the lowest." "Nous commencons par le no. I pour suivre jusques au 21, parce que l'usage actuel est de commencer par le moindre nombre pour s'elever de-la aux plus hauts: il paroit cependant que les Egyptiens commencoient a compter par le plus haut pour descendre de-la jusqu'au plus bas. C'est ainsi qu'ils solsifioient l'Octave en descendant, et non en montant comme nous. Dans la Dissertation qui est a la suite de celle-ci, on suit l'usage des Egyptiens, et on en tire le plus grand parti. On aura donc ici les deux manieres: la notre la plus commode quand on ne veut considerer ces Cartes qu'en elles-memes: et celle-la, utile pour en mieux concevoir l'ensemble et les rapports." It is in Compte de Mellets companion article "Recherches sur les Tarots, et sur la Divination par les Cartes des Tarots" about the divinational uses of the cards that we find actual attributions of Hebrew letters to the cards, which correspond to the ones you have given. ~tiny ibis~ -- "Walk this world with me"