Orig-To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.astrology,alt.tarot,
         alt.divination,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick
Subject: Tarot and Astrology (Decans, Faces and Planetary Order)
From: Di-a-rama <bromoNO@SPAM.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 19:09:52 GMT

 [on] ...Anthony Louis: "Horary Astrology Made Simple"  

mostly based on the traditional practices of 17th century 
English astrologer William Lilly. He refers to Decans and 
Faces on p. 98.  While he does not cite a source for the 
Decan divisions or their uses, the book states as above 
that they are Hindu in origin.  Since traditional European 
astrology is a patchwork of many sources, it does not 
surprise me that something from Hindy astrology would 
insinuate its way into western practice.  Whether they 
are correct or not almost doesn't matter -- Decans in the 
context of Horary astrology are not used to assign 
dignity to a planet/luminary, but Faces *are* used.

Louis also states the application of Decan rulers is used 
by modern astrologers--I'm not sure if he is implying that 
it is a newly adopted modern practice, or what.  However, 
that does not account for the reference in Agrippa you cited 
(Chapter XXXVI, Book II). In this chapter, Agrippa states 
that his sources are Egyptian, Indian and Chaldean.  He then 
goes on to describe general talismans based on elemental 
properties which is probably the reason for referring to 
Decanates.

Also, Agrippa's material (including the Decanates) generally 
applies toward crafting astrological talismans rather than 
relaying relative power to the planets in other astrological 
contexts. Regardless, Face is the most paltry, undesirable 
level of essential dignity there is--the consolation prize.  
(Lilly gives points:  +1= face, +2= terms, +3= triplicity,
+4= exaltation and +5= rulership.  Lack of essential 
dignity is called 'peregrine' and is = -5 points.)

Anyway, Agrippa's talismans are whole packages with several 
factors required to make them effective.  In ch XLI, bk II 
(p. 386), an image of the Sun is made thus:

	Sun Hour
	1st face of Leo Ascending with the Sun
	Sun ascending in exaltation
	(Make an image as described)

From this we get:

  Sunrise on a Sunday when the Sun is in 1-10 degrees of Leo.  

If we're looking at any other traditional practices, we'll 
probably also make the moon waxing, not ill-dignified, and 
applying in a good aspect to the Sun.

But the real meat of this election is how the Sun is made 
fortunate by sign and house placement plus hour/day rulers.

Ultimately, I think application of Face rulers to Tarot 
cards is misleading. It takes the meaning out of context 
and tries to force fit it into a system that is already 
complete in itself. I'm not sure if this agrees with the
original post -- it seemed like the gist was to show how 
things are mindlessly perpetuated and appropriated. 
Perhaps the best answer to this is to try it and 
see if it works.

Cheers,
Di