Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!sjc72.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!wn14feed!wn13feed!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!attbi_s51.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3FBCFDBB.A55C0305@slip.net> From: "Fr. A.o.C." Organization: Temple of the Quintupal Triplicity X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.magick Subject: Re: Open Source Magick (make no mistake) References: <3c7ddd63.0311091414.782dcbc1@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 139 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.160.197.207 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s51 1069350331 67.160.197.207 (Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:45:31 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:45:31 GMT Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:45:31 GMT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:361176 Solemnus wrote: > > Rally the troops! To arms, to arms! We must stomp this open > > source business once and for all! > > > > That's your cue, by the way. > > Sorry, I don't have a script. Whatever you think my line is supposed > to be, I'm guessing it's supposed to be some kind of anti-open-source > statement. Which proves you aren't paying attention, since I've > already stated (twice, I think, but I'm not going back to look) that I > am in favor of open-source movements as a rule. > > (Hint: That's why I joined in conversation an a thread with "open > source" in the subject.) And I suppose I ought to drop in my two shekels, since I started it. The question you raise comes down to, aside from all the like or dislike of a given institution, the value of a "surprise factor" in the initiatory process. For my part, I'm not a member of any OTO organization (but some of my best friends etc...) However, I've already "read ahead", at least with regard to King's versions of the OTO initiation rites, and also I've read the Blue Lodge Masonic rites. I formed my own opinion on the process they use, but to make sure I bounced them off one of those close friends in the OTO. The consensus is that, indeed, there is a value to the surprise factor. But also, that AS INITIATION RITES, the OTO rites really do need to have that factor -- because that's all they DO have, initiation-wise. The Minerval, for example, (I'll stick to it since I'm sure you've already undergone it, so I won't spoil it for you) is not much more than a tent, some 'Arabian Nights' costumes, a few speeches on Thelemic doctrine, and a feast. This is utterly unlike the GD Neophyte initiation, in which certain specific energies are called up by the Officers, and at crucial points in the process, are 'injected' directly into the Aspirant by the Hierophant. As such, the surprise factor is really only a thin icing on the cake, much like the "water into blood" slight-of-hand trick that's part of the original 0=0 ritual, but can be dropped without losing the desired initiatory effect. (Any other GD groups here that actually use that one? Hands?) For what it's worth, I myself LIKE using the slight-of-hand tricks, and our lodge came up with a few MORE such tricks to use in the higher degree initiations. They're based on the idea of getting the Aspirant to experience sensory "cues" related to the element being invoked on a given path or sphere. (Like the way a certain OTO initiation uses a small space heater to generate heat during the... oops! I don't want to spoil anything for you...) This provides a bit of "surprise" factor into our process in and of itself. A bit of "stage magic" is useful for an initiation rite, as any good shaman or yogi would confirm. Experiencing a little "magic" that forces the mind of the observer to doubt their own eyes also creates a certain psychological reaction, which, like the surprise factor, can be a useful tool. It puts the mind in a certain psychological state, which makes it more susceptible to the real business at hand. So my conclusion is that the surprise factor is crucial to the OTO initiations, but NOT to ALL initiations, in particular the GD initiations. You've identified a real mechanism, but it's not universally applicable as a general rule. As such, the GD system is more amenable to the Open Source model than the OTO would be. The down side to the use of "secrecy" in initiation rites is that it has horrible potential for abuse, and this has to be weighed against it's usefulness as a tool -- especially when it's part of a hierarchical degree system. The series of initiations isn't only for the sake of magickal effect (and in the OTO rituals, they are decidedly NOT magickally effective is the same sense that the GD rituals are), but are the means by which the individual advances in the SOCIAL structure of the order. The OTO states officially that they are NOT a "teaching order", unlike the Golden Dawn, in which teaching is the reason for the Outer Order to exist. Any "secret" magical order tends to be an oligarchy, where a small group or "inner circle" holds the power. Because humans have a maddening tendency to "want" what they can't have, each level of initiation has certain "secret knowledge" imparted to the initiate, and this "reward system" serves as a way to enforce the pecking order. It also provides an impetus to the members of the lower levels to remain loyal to the system so as to be eventually granted this knowledge and accepted into the successive levels. Furthermore, once an individual has been granted access to the upper echelons, they then have a personal stake in perpetuating the mythology that surrounds the structure -- and the cycle continues. There are also the problems that arise with regard to any secret pyramidal organization; paranoia will almost always set in, especially among the inner circle. Since in most cases the higher grades are offered by "invitation only", rather than based on tests of knowledge or ability, the lower echelons will always want to curry favor with the higher-ups, and so therefore will be impelled to feed them varying mixtures of bullshit and flattery, and to discredit and snipe at their fellow lower-level aspirants. This serves to make the higher ups increasingly paranoid and ignorant, and the most talented flattering bullshitters tend to rise to the top. Robert Anton Wilson called this the SNAFU Principle: "Communication only occurs between equals -- real communication, that is -- because when you are dealing with people above you in a hierarchy, you learn not to tell them anything they don't want to hear. If you tell them anything they don't want to hear, the response is, "One more word Bumstead and I'll fire you!" Or in the military, "One more word and you're court-martialed." Its throughout the whole system. "So the higher up in the hierarchy you go, the more lies are being told to flatter those above them. So those at the top have no idea what is going on at all. Those at the bottom have to adjust to the rules made by those at the top, who don't know what's going on. Those at the top can write rules about this, that and the other, while those at the bottom have got to adjust reality to fit the rules as much as they can. "Meanwhile, since nobody wants to feel like a coward and a liar all the time, it's easier to stop noticing how reality differs from what those at the top say, and try to make yourself believe that what they say does correspond to reality. Even if that means bumping your knees against things they say aren't there or falling down stairs they claim don't exist and so on. "So I call this the burden of omniscience: those on the top are supposed to be doing the seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and all the sensing, apprehending and conceptualizing for the whole society and those at the bottom have to adjust to what those at the top think, based on all the misinformation flowing up in a hierarchy where any speaking of the truth can get you punished." See; http://www.deepleafproductions.com/wilsonlibrary/texts/raw-inter-utopia.html This, as I understand it, is Satyr's basic critique of the "hierarchical order" system used by the OTO, and he certainly has a good point. - Fr. A.o.C. ----- "I love debate and hate censorship. Accuracy of signal and free flow of information define sanity in my epistemology." -- Robert A. Wilson