Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nagasiva yronwode) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick.ethics,alt.thelema,alt.lucky.w,alt.magick.folk Subject: High and Low Magic Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 91 Sender: yronwode@sonic.net Message-ID: <8gneoi$jcs@bolt.sonic.net> Reply-To: spam@luckymojo.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.4 (NOV) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 03:17:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.224.36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 959397441 208.201.224.36 (Fri, 26 May 2000 20:17:21 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 20:17:21 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:23134 alt.magick:194346 alt.pagan.magick:22213 alt.magick.ethics:7614 alt.lucky.w:7490 alt.magick.folk:4547 50000526 IVom a correspondent wrote: >...I've been pondering the correspondence between the hoodoo >paraphernalia & lore and comic-book iconography and story. >A chewey new idea for me! my intent to a great degree is to get to know as throughly what is called 'Low Magic' as I have become acquainted with what I have understood to be 'High Magic' (by Hermetic standards). I want to attempt an assimilation of all of it and then take a philosophic and scientific approach to description and practice, incorporating all the methods I run across and excluding all the biases I find about what seem to be 'competing' ideologies surrounding them. >The dichotomy between "high" and "low" magic seems false to me. They have >always seemed to me to be just different colors on the same spectrum. while I would agree that the morality of the two is false, I think that the dichotomy between the two is a real one, and is prevalent in what I would call 'ceremonial European traditions heavily inspired by Hermetic sources'. this includes a fair amount of Neopagan culture (esp. Wicca). the divide betwixt the two categories (and I'm sure it isn't hard and fast, but common) appears to be based upon objective or at least intent. 'High Magic' is mystical, spiritual, in a sense which does not include materialism (i.e. hedonism) as a moral pursuit. it includes disciplines or rites of purification, refinement, and spiritual skill-building. 'Low Magic' is acquisitive, political, and at times aggressive. where the two overlap is probably in the area of healing (which some would categorize as 'High' on account of its altruistic intent even though it may include a very material, bodily, restitution). >What deserves attention is the magical mind-set. I remember hearing >somewhere the term "pronoid" or "pronioa," meant as the reverse of >"paranoid" or "paranoia," - the idea that the universe is >conspiring to one's BENEFIT. I like this idea. It seems to be >central to the magical world view. I agree that this is a part of the Hermetic mindset, and it does seem that at least some portion of those who would seek to employ the natural world as a type of technology would agree. yet more often I think that the scientific perspective is adopted by those who wish to use 'the universe' to accomplish their ends, seeing no necessary conspiracy at all, just a technology available for use (in the same way that automobiles or computers are not evidence for this conspiracy). in other words, I'm not sure that pronoia is *central* but it is certainly an important facet of magical culture. specifically, it factors heavily amongst those whose pantheism or monism is what provides the 'stuff' or technique that the magician uses to achieve hir end. but the polytheist or materialist employing magic in a world of competing forces must guard against deception, must take care that no adverse forces are gathering against hir, and is sure to keep a variety of talismans, charms, and amulets on hand or around hir neck or waist to fend off any passing corrosion (e.g. the Evil Eye). >Magicians, high or low, are those who make an attempt to participate >actively in this beneficial tendency. The particular technology >employed seems beyond the point. does the materialist scientist consider the universe a conspiracy toward hir benefit by virtue of discovering principles of regularity allowing feats of engineering heretofore unimaginable? or is this a labour of generations amidst what at first appears to be a chaotic maelstrom of random forces, constructing what can only be had through hard-copy memory and critical analysis and harnessing of regular rhythms. >...such "low magic" [as may be found in rituals with orishas in >African and Cuban offshoots or parallels] what made this 'low magic'? it seems to me that it is consistent with god-oriented mysticism and had very beneficial effects in mind. >has great power, and the experience has had an impact on me that is >at least significant as any I've had with "high magic." I think this is another aspect of the differences as I've come to understand them with respect to them: High Magic relates to EXPERIENCES, usually mystical in character (like the wonderful type that you described elsewhere), while Low Magic is PRACTICALLY-oriented. blessed beast! nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nagasiva) -- mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/ emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired