From thelema93-l-owner@bitsy.hollyfeld.org Thu May 9 15:36:21 1996 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA09258 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 15:36:20 -0700 Received: from bitsy.hollyfeld.org ([198.70.189.30]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA14108 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 15:36:15 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by bitsy.hollyfeld.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA07972 for thelema93-l-outgoing; Thu, 9 May 1996 18:28:36 -0400 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com (root@nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by bitsy.hollyfeld.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA07968 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 18:28:19 -0400 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id PAA12793 for ; Thu, 9 May 1996 15:23:41 -0700 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id PAA08529; Thu, 9 May 1996 15:23:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 15:23:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199605092223.PAA08529@jobe.shell.portal.com> To: thelema93-l@HOLLYFELD.ORG Subject: Grimoires and Catholic History (Was Re: Let's not trash Christian Magickians just because of Bible thumping idiots.. Was: Catholic Magic is an Oxymoron From: tyagi@HOUSEOFKAOS.ABYSS.COM (xiwangmu) Reply-To: tyagi@HOUSEOFKAOS.ABYSS.COM (xiwangmu) Sender: owner-thelema93-l@HOLLYFELD.ORG Precedence: bulk reply-to: thelema93-l@bitsy.hollyfeld.org Status: RO Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.satanism,alt.evil,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion,talk.religion.newage,alt.thelema,alt.magick.moderated Subject: Grimoires and Catholic History (Was Re: Let's not trash Christian Magickians just because of Bible thumping idiots.. Was: Catholic Magic is an Oxymoron From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (xiwangmu) kaliyuga (cc'd from Usenet) 49960506 heidrick@well.sf.ca.us (Bill Heidrick): |>|...most western grimories of any historic note require Roman Catholic |>|ordination for the rituals to be done as written, unmodified. |>I have not found this is Lemegeton (though I don't have original copies |>here) or the Key of Solomon. Where should we expect these requirements |>to be found? |This is most evident in the many lesser grimories. See the collections of |Idres Shaw: _Secret Lore of Magic_ # He who has [the Key of Solomon], and uses it according to the instructions, # will be able not only to perform magical ceremonies: he will be able, # in the case of of errors, to correct them. # No operation will succeed unless the _Exorcist_ [my emph., tyagi] # understands completely what he is about. # I therefore most earnestly adjure the person who gains possession of # this Key of Secrets not to pass it on.... [etc.] p. 13, 1972 edition. ____________________ In the introduction I don't notice that it mentions anything to do with Exorcist as a class, and the index only has 'exorcism' listed in terms of 'possession', not a class of Catholic. you sure 'bout this? Didn't see more on Exorcist in Honorius, but yeah definitely Catholic style. |Waite: _Ceremonial Magic_ aka _Black Magick and Pacts_ -- Crowley started | with this one. |Both the Greater and Lesser Keys have presumptive material of this sort, |but it's not as obvious. Christian and Roman Catholic presumption is |somewhat concealed under pseudo attribution to Solomon. Vestments |and other matter tend to be reflective of RC usage. why? because that is all that remains of the grimoires? The Key of Solomon is reputed to be thousands of years old by some. Cavendish says of it: The *Key of Solomon* and its variants and relatives are primarily Jewish in tone, with Graeco-Egyptian, oriental, and, rarely, some Christian material blended in. Devout prayers to God and a stern insistence on chastity, fasting, and cleanliness as prerequisites for success, are mingled with operations 'to bring destruction and to give death, and to sow hatred and dsicord', or 'for preparing powders provacative of madness'. Divine energy is tapped autmatically through prayers, conjurations and names of power, regardless of the magician's motives. In massive incantations, drawing extensively on the Old Testament, the magician musters all his reserves of will and force to compel powerful spirits to appear and obey him. (...) Besides these operations of high magic, which a modern occultist would likely interpret as the summoning and control of forces within the magician himself, the *Key* has processes for making a magic carpet and flying garters, discovering thieves, finding buried treasure, gaining love and esteem, and becoming invisible. It gives directions for making the necessary sacrifices to spirits. There are dauntingly elaborate instructions for choosing the right planetary day and hour for a magical operation; for the preliminary prayers, fasting and preparations through which the magician sets himself apart from everyday life, the better to enter an abnormal plane of experience and to protect himself against its perils; for making the 'pentacles' or talismans charged with magic power; for drawing the magic circle; for the manufacture of the magician's robes, symbols, perfumes and armoury of weapons - the knife, sword, sickle, poniard, dagger, lance, wand, staff, and other instruments of magical art'. pp. 58-9. _________ I can't find any reference at all to the RCatholics or to 'Exorcist' beyond this kind of mention, and Shah says of the Key of Solomon "This is probably the most celebrated and at the same time most feared work in the whole of ceremonial magic. Controversies have raged for centuries as to its authenticity and as to whether there ever was a Hebrew version; and it is only relatively recently that fresh light has been thrown on the question. Circumstancial evidence now shows that the *Key of Solomon* has existed, in one form or another, from very remote antiquity. Certain of its Words of Power, the actual arrangement of the processes, point to Semitic and even Babylonian origins. The opinion of the present writer is that it may have entered into Europe through the medium of the Gnostics, Cabbalists and similar magico-religious schools. We cannot be sure, of course, as to how much of the world as we know it is original, and how much must be attributed to later additions. This, from one point of view, is not really important.... We know the *Key* in Europe through the manuscript copies which ar buried in the great libraries of London, Paris and other centres. With the exception of one partial version several hundred years old (which is not obtainable), [what is he talking about here? - tn] there has been no unbiased version ever seen in print, at any time. The manuscripts, diagrams and their arrangements and sequence differ from copy to copy. French and Latin are the usual languages in which the *Key* is found, and most copies date from the eighteenth century. and later There has been a confusion in comments and history due to the fact that several books have circulated under the general title of Solomon's *Key*. *The Key of Rabbi Solomon*, for example, is a totally different work, dealing with planetary talismans. Again, there is another and very rare *Key* associated with Solomon, which is generally not available for comparison, [why not? where is it kept? who owns it?] and which is considered important enough to have a special section devoted to it in this book. [the Clavicle - tn] This very interesting contribution tells how Solomon first came to into contact with the genii whom he was later to control, how he compelled their obedience, and of his downfall. Shah, pp. 9-11. _______________ I remember the story in Crowley's edition of Legemeton which purports the 1001 Arabian Nights as the source of the Solomonic story concerning the djinn and his attempt to send the evil ones into the sea in a brass urn sealed up with a magic ring. Lovely, fruity but lovely. there's something Jungian about this. fairly easy to analyse. |>Does this imply that RC ordination was considered 'standard' among mages |>who used 'most Western grimoires'? You don't think you're overestimating |>the requirement of the Church and its influence? Or is the case that what |>we have left of the grimoires was filtered through the Church and therefore |>makes note that nobody except people who have been trained to reside within |>the protection of God Almighty (tm) are qualified to effect it, magically? |"Exorcist" is a degree of RC lesser ordination. Wherever you see that term |in magical texts of some age, that implies RC ordination most of the time. |The Grimorie of Honorous (Sworn Book) is not the only one. The work ascribed (Shah and Cavendish say falsely) to Pope Honorius III does indeed purport Catholic origins and approval "with the virtue of these keys the Chief of the Church become the Chief of Hell." Does this mean that most Enlightenment (18th century) spirit-summonings are concocted within the framework of the spirit-matter demon/angel dualism of the Catholic Church? (or should we really presume these texts to be fabrications prior to that time? And is this the focus of study which you recommend as a healthy magical course to those you know (or would your suggestions lead to other places than Enochian and spirit-demon workings?)? mu tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com