From tyagi@bjt.net Mon Nov 18 21:34:06 1996 Return-Path: tyagi@bjt.net Received: from kudonet.com (kudonet.com [165.227.52.1]) by bitsy.hollyfeld.org (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA02637 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 21:33:57 -0500 Received: by kudonet.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA24510; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:25:10 -0800 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 17:25:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199611190125.RAA24510@kudonet.com> To: tyagi@hollyfeld.org Subject: Magick/9611.mgkeths.m From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Status: O >Path: kudonet.com!kudo!tyagi >From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) >Newsgroups: alt.religion.wicca,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick.ethics,alt.satanism >Subject: Mariposa: Light/Dark Magick (was Night Magick) >Followup-To: alt.pagan,alt.religion.wicca,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick.ethics >Date: 17 Nov 1996 03:55:20 -0800 >Organization: KudoNet On-Line Services >Lines: 97 >Sender: tyagi@bjt.net >Message-ID: >References: <3283D57F.5729@brigadoon.com <19961109154300.KAA16601@ladder01.news.aol.com> <328931AF.5406@tezcat.com> <32898792.1284@tezcat.com> >Reply-To: Mariposa >NNTP-Posting-Host: kudo.kudonet.com >Xref: kudonet.com alt.religion.wicca:32461 alt.magick.tyagi:8177 alt.magick:76304 alt.pagan.magick:1670 alt.magick.ethics:1600 alt.satanism:46164 [from alt.pagan: Mariposa ] Marjorie Rosen wrote: > > 2. I'm sorry, but there is *no* such thing as "white" or "dark" magick. > Magick *is*! It is a tool to be used, based on the ethics of the person > using it. If a drunk driver gets behind the wheel of a car and kills a > family of four in an accident, do we punish the car? Of course not. The > car was only a tool with the force of its working coming from the drunk > driver. > > I am a sincere advocate of the Ethic. I have seen it in action (even > against myself purely by accident!) and uphold it. It provides safety and > guidelines in the use of magick. However, "those who cannot hex, cannot > heal" is a truism, as well. > > BB > > Marjorie I completely disagree with your statement that there is no such thing as white or black 'magick'. From a very, very strict wiccan point of view where magick is only the manipulation of energy, then yes, there isn't really white or black save for what is filtered through the individual. However, the Universe is a really big place and not everything, everyone, believes or exists within that very strict framework. And, there was a Time before this reality was even created where exist/existed essence quite beyond our imaginations. Is there 'Evil'? Yes. Is there 'Good'? Yes. In terms of the unfolding creation of this reality, assuming that there is a plan to this creation, then anything that works against this plan would be evil, anything working for this plan is Good. If there is no plan, then good and evil is relative to the filter of the object/person who is acting and the response of the other that is observing or reacting to the first. But, does this mean there is no black and white magick? That, ultimately depends on the world view one experiences and adheres to. In your case, the world view has not black and white magick. In my world view, there is black and white magick..but not in the classic sense of white=good and black=evil. White magick is any and all magickal acts or actions or reactions that aid in the unfolding of the Universe _or_ in th dissolution of the existence of the Self/Reality _within_ the framing work of this realities Creation/Creators. Black, or Shadow, Magick is any act or action or reaction that harnesses, uses, 'invokes', those essences that exist outside this reality. Recal, for instance, the creation stories of, lets say Egypt. Before there was the Primal Mound, there was only the Waters of Unformlessness. There in the Waters existed/non-existed beings and creatures. One of those creatures is A'apep, the Serpent of Chaos who seeks to Destroy the Self Created. But, in those same waters were other creatures, snake and frog headed beings who served Djehuti and Aided in the creation of this Reality and with Re. To extend this example. A person who is working with Mayet is working white or light magick due to the fact that the forces, essence, of that Netjer is rooted in the Act of this creation and how things are supposed to unfold as creation moves on through Time. A person working with Neith, Primal Waters or Tem would be working in 'shadow' magicks because these beings existed _before_ the creation of this Universe. As another example, working with the Sidhe Folk is considered, by some and probably in an arbritary matter, to be working with the Shadow or Dark Magick. The beings of the Sidhe are not, per se, associated with the 'Light' due to thier capricious natures, war like behaviors, living below ground, kidnapping and various wars. Also, Magick itself can be and is often seen to be, an expression of the natural forces of the Earth. Therefore, Magick has its own 'function' and 'nature'. If one believes that the earth is alive and, in some alien way, conscious, then, its forces would be conscious expressions of the collective whole. If we look atthe Biosphere called earth, we see that it does respond to dynamic changes and seeks a sort of global homeostasis. Some playing with the weather in one area, damages the weather in another area..ei, rain in one places takes it from another as the water has to come from somewhere on this planet. Also, rememebr that this planet is a closed system which means that it has a limited amount of resources and the distrubition of those resources is vital to the functioning of the whole. Then there is the discussion of the relationship between Diety and Magick, Diety and the Individual and how working with Diety effects the Individuals magick. Just me thoughts... Mariposa http://www.tezcat.com/~mariposa/ a gay pagan place