From bouncefilter+occult=tyagi=houseofkaos.abyss.com@www.hollyfeld.org Thu Aug 27 15:21:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: from mindy.accesscom.com (root@ns2.accesscom.com [205.226.156.3]) by shell.accesscom.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11351 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:21:31 -0700 Received: from mail-out-0.tiac.net (mail-out-0.tiac.net [199.0.65.247]) by mindy.accesscom.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32508 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:21:29 -0700 Received: from mail-out-1.tiac.net (mail-out-1.tiac.net [199.0.65.12]) by mail-out-0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24045 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:21:28 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from bouncefilter+occult=tyagi=houseofkaos.abyss.com@www.hollyfeld.org) Received: from www.hollyfeld.org (www.hollyfeld.org [204.130.199.143]) by mail-out-1.tiac.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA09860 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA14676 for tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:26:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: www.hollyfeld.org: majordom set sender to bouncefilter+occult=tyagi=houseofkaos.abyss.com@bitsy.hollyfeld.org using -f Received: from mindy.accesscom.com (ns2.accesscom.com [205.226.156.3]) by www.hollyfeld.org (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA14626 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:21:11 -0400 Received: from shell.accesscom.com (tyagi@shell.accesscom.com [205.226.156.10]) by mindy.accesscom.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA32189; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:16:18 -0700 Received: (from tyagi@localhost) by shell.accesscom.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10917; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:16:17 -0700 Message-Id: <199808272216.PAA10917@shell.accesscom.com> Subject: (O) Basic Questions in Occultism (Wicca, Black Magick, Practice) To: occult@hollyfeld.org (Occult Elist) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:16:15 -0700 (PDT) From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-occult@hollyfeld.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: occult@hollyfeld.org Status: RO 980827 IIIom from a correspondent: # I've read your death spell and it is interesting. not very historically-based, though inspired by studies. # I am a student of magick and I am interested in pure magick, # not some religion. the subject of the elist to which this is sent (Occult). good luck trying to separate out magick and religion. I doubt that this can be achieved with any finality except within the lexicons of certian churches or fanatics. # I have a few questions for you: I respond publically for the benefit of all who have interest. # 1. What do you think of Wicca and their law # ( also what do you mean SOCIAL law) a social law like laws against murder, violation, and thievery in that it is a compensation for a specific act which is condemned by moral authorities. a social law like principles of human behavior, comparable to what are called 'Laws of (Physical) Nature' by scientists. it might fall as a field of study most firmly into the subject of sociology or ethics rather than cosmology or thealogy. there is no reason to presume it has some kind of retributive or ontological status, so I have instead looked to more elegant rationalizations. if you have evidence to support the more controversial then I urge you to provide your evidence and testimony. I think Wicca is a beautiful religion. I think for a religion it does what it sets out to do and well. its edges are, like all religions, somewhat fragmentary and syncretic, and I think this also is to its credit as a body of sects, liturgies, rites, and instructions. the Wiccan Rede is a valuable guideline for beginning and advanced occultists alike, subject to revision based on the depth of one's insight. it is unfortunate that the Law (of Threefold Return) is at times confused with the Rede (harm none and dwtw), but this is to be expected among those new to the Craft. let us hope the Elders remain in tune with the gods. # 2. Do you consider your magick to be black? 'black magic' is like 'satanism' in that they are both used as epithets to condemn the activities of others. unless you define what these terms mean to you or I provide some definitive lexicon of my own (which I will not do, therefore leaving me with greater freedom), then there is no way to ascertain it finally. sometimes I consider it black, yes, but not usually in the sense that I intend harm to another person. as I am aspiring to the principle of ahimsa, you can see where my ethical interests lie, though I think single individuals can become too powerful and I prefer opposition to hierarchical relationships. # 3. How long do you practice magick? what is 'practicing magick'? does that include the exercise of the will, acting within the orbit of one's Thelemic destiny, or do you mean concocting potions, weaving spells, constructing ritual tools? whenever I feel like it. lately I've been conducting rituals of change, shifting domestic land-base for the first time, negotiating the variables. if you mean how many years, then I would only say that I read but didn't understand my first real text on the subject (MiTaP) about 15 years ago, so I'm a relative newcomer. I've experimented with a variety of forms over the years, typically spontaneous, not always ceremonially-based. # 4. How do you defend yourself against other spellcasters? I prefer the Simon Iff method. this might also be said to be the power of Quan Yin, or Lakshmi, using the Word of Love to resolve any differences that might be outstanding. for a strong defense I would study martial texts of East and West, such as Musashi's _Book of Five Rings_, Agrippa's _Three Books of Occult Philosophy_, perhaps a few grimoires, some other Solomonic material, maybe some Dion Fortune (_Psychic Self- Defense_ is popular), or if you're really white-lightish you can go with Weinstein's _Positive Magic_. use the materials found in these texts to construct for yourself an entire system of defenses. use as inspiration comic book heroes the Scarlet Witch or Doctor Strange. draw from fantasy novels like _Master of Five Magics_ by Hardy or role-playing game supplements like _The Grimoire_ by Hume or card games like Magic the Gathering. no source which inspires is too childish. defensiveness is an important part of life experience. putting up boundaries and securing them an important part of magical work and we can draw firmly from imaginative sources to express our most profound feelings of vulnerability and insurmountability. ultimately the strength of the will and the expertise of its application will determine the outcome. blessed beast! __________________________________________________________________________ nagasiva -- tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com; http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/ cc replies to me if this was read in Usenet. replies may be posted. ____________...oooOOO---occult@hollyfeld.org---OOOooo..._____________ To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe" to occult-request@hollyfeld.org To unsubscribe your@email.com send "unsubscribe your@email.com" http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven/elists/occult.phtml