Path: ultra.sonic.net!news From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer) Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.politics.satanism,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan,alt.satannet Subject: Magick vs Ecology, Control vs Harmony (was Setian/Satanic Magick) Date: 12 Jan 1999 11:17:00 -0800 Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 116 Message-ID: <77g73c$e7m@bolt.sonic.net> References: <3690764A.5756AD0F@pudu.microserve.com> <77equo$kjq@bolt.sonic.net> <369B628F.1C9BCD8B@geocities.com> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com NNTP-Posting-Host: bolt.sonic.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV) Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.satanism:105137 alt.magick.tyagi:15235 talk.religion.misc:275002 alt.pagan:218525 alt.satannet:2229 49990111 IIIom Hail Satan! Norma : #># Self-Mastery, followed by Mastery over one's environment, come #># from the study and application of the sanest and most practical #># methods and materials one can obtain. nocTifer: #> mastery over one's environment is indicative of insanity, not virtue. Balanone : # ...can you explain your reasoning here? # I can see how insanity can lead to or cause an extreme need to # over-control one's environment, sometimes to success, and # sometimes to the delusion that one controls the environment. hyper-control is the pitfall of the magician, and the anxiety surrounding the loss of that control when playing with powers which one does not truly understand as represented quite well in 'The Sorceror's Apprentice' is the challenge we face today as our technical expertise increases while our moral sense remains undeveloped. # But actual and passable mastery over one's environment is # indicative of technological advance and intelligent choice. intelligence is valuable, but without compassion to balance it, that intelligence becomes a maleficent cataract which conceals the evils of our misshapen corruption. # I don't attempt to exert complete control over my environment # (I prefer to have the inspiration and joy that hazard can # provide), but I do attempt (and generally succeed) to exert # enough control over my environment to see that I'm comfortable # and able to do what I want (read a book, walk the dog, even # post to alt.satanism) without having to worry overly much # about environmental dangers. this is an awkward and clunky means of achieving what you want, and I'm not saying you have many options provided to you by others of our species. however, the human species is out of harmony with the other species of the planet. in our over-reproduction, over-consumption and technological skill we are quickly making of Eden a veritable Hell. I don't call this mastery, but insanity, in the context of continuation. # This level of control is symptomatic of today's technological # advances and my care in choosing my geographic location by # its attributes. I consider that a sane approach to the environment. within any given situation there may be sane choices made short-term that, given long-term application, would be insane. I am agreed with you that what you are doing conforms to a rational approach to modern living, but my comment has to do with the focus on domination and control without some movement toward harmonization with that which sustains us both energetically and AESTHETICALLY. these are presently overlooked as inconsequential and remedial without basis, and our continued fuck-up is not made more rational by those of us who aren't attempting to create alternatives for future generations (impacting our fertility, how we live with the land and other animals and plants, etc.). # Would you disagree? influence on and "mastery over" seem like two different things. I agree that technological influence allows a degree of comfort and facilitation of achieving certian short-term ends, but there are long-term costs to these ends which, in short, are not sustainable by human beings who have any degree of concern about either a) human living conditions or b) the availability of living space for nonhumans of any size and comparative predatorial class. 'mastery over' implies a complete control which I deem insane on the basis of our severely disconnected state with respect to relationships we have to the world of life (as compared to the world of death we are creating in urban garden-specked attempts to cement our lives into stasis in an obvious denial of our mortality). that is, we are immature as a species, and technological enhancement of our stupidity doesn't make us any smarter in its use, it just makes the damage that we can do to everything around us amplified. if Norma or others had used the phrase "mastery of" as compared to "mastery over" I would have been less critical, since the mastery of an environment can imply coming to a perfect relationship with it whereby its ecology may be sustained (rather than subjected to our domination and exploitation for short-term benefit). but oppression is exactly the kind of inequity that I see Satanism as coming to OPPOSE, not to merely create a new one where the New Elite assume the dominant role and set about exploiting the weak based on their superiority. it is for this reason that I adore the Romantic Satan who liberates human beings from oppressive circumstance, the Promethean human-ally against an oppressive divine dictator, and find it equally valuable to see him in sophisticate apparel as in a variety of theriomorphs. this Luciferian Satan isn't just a gate-keeper on human power and freedom, but also seeks this benefit for other animals too, being the Lord of This World and truly appreciative of wildness in all its various manifestations. blessed beast! nocTifer -- tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (emailed replies may be posted); cc me replies; http://www.abyss.com/tokus; http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatSPELLS.html