Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail From: bloodofenoch@goddamnfruit.com (Andralphus) Newsgroups: alt.magick Subject: Re: Wiccan High Magick (Hermetic Pagans) Date: 6 Nov 2002 13:35:09 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: <2MHx9.161061$mxk1.4045@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 151.196.24.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1036618510 1985 127.0.0.1 (6 Nov 2002 21:35:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Nov 2002 21:35:10 GMT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:323890 "Chris" wrote in message news:<2MHx9.161061$mxk1.4045@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>... [Snipped for space.] Chris, You've brought up a number of weighty issues in your post. I can't address all of them right now, but one of the central ones seems to be: Hermetism is powerful, but not devotional. Wicca is devotional, but not powerful. What can I find that's both devotional and powerful. Well, for one thing, there's the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage, which is a Hermetic operation that is completely devotional. Crowley's Liber Astarte vel Berylli sub figura CLXXV gives instructions for making contact with pagan gods or goddesses by means of a devotional program. And speaking of Uncle Al, devotion plays a much larger role in Thelema than most Hermetic paths. You may find it valuable (even if you're not into Thelema personally) to take a look at Liber Resh, the Gnostic Mass and the Mass of the Phoenix, the Treasure House of Images, Liber Lapidis Lazuli, and of course Liber AL (especially the first chapter). I've probably missed a couple. In any case, they're all here: http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/ Then of course there's bhakti yoga and devotional tantra. Sorry to say I don't know much about them. Here's some essays on them from a Chaos Magick perspective though: http://www.phhine.ndirect.co.uk/archives/tantra.htm Hope this helps. - A.