Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net.POSTED!ec13cbac!not-for-mail From: heidrick@well.com (Bill Heidrick) Newsgroups: alt.magick Subject: Re: Heidrick Reply-To: heidrick@well.com Message-ID: <4049cea3.4297701@news.west.earthlink.net> References: <403f2fda.4570712@news.west.earthlink.net> <4040a2dc.5846281@news.west.earthlink.net> <4041e394.4436892@news.west.earthlink.net> <40447b60.4364884@news.west.earthlink.net> <40487193.4124625@news.west.earthlink.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 78 Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 13:30:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.165.40.192 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net 1078579836 209.165.40.192 (Sat, 06 Mar 2004 05:30:36 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 05:30:36 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:369559 93 Saytr, >> Judging by the handwriting (it's reproduced from a handwritten MS of >> some sort), it looks late 19th century to me, conforming to the >> "1880" date in the back page; and the remark of the existence of >> "Uranus" as "Herschel" suggests 19th century (Uranius was at first >> called "Georgium Sidus" when discovered in the late 18th century). > >A good point, one I hadn't considered. I should add that the pen used was probably some sort of metal thing, not a feather quill but perhaps a "crow quill" . There's none of the fancy variation in line that one would expect with a carved quill. Perhaps it means nothing, since the copy could well have been a transcription made in the 20th century . >> Apparently the person who wrote it used the name "Raphael" about >> then. That leads me to think of "Ophiel" as used by Peach, but the >> date is too early. Maybe De Laurence himself, maybe somebody >> connected to Plumber scribed it. > >Plumber? I'm afraid you lost me there. My all too usual sort of bugger-up in spelling. George Winslow Plummer (1876 - 1944), Societas Rosicruciana in America. Plummer had a series of correspondence lessons, quite a bit above the usual in some respects, especially in Agrippa style ceremonial magic(k). Crowley used him in Moonchild under the cover of Mr. Butcher. See Martin Starr's new book _The Unknown God_ for more. >One point that suggests an author other than de Laurence - admittedly >rather weak - is, why the somewhat conservative date of 1880? Given >the publisher's tendency to exaggeration, a much older date would seem >to have served his purposes better. If the date of 1880 is right, it couldn't be Plummer unless Plummer copied it. It could be a precursor to Plummer. >> I don't know, but there were several books claimed as "Raphael's" in >> that period, including a popular ephemerius. Whoever did it,, it was >> done as a "fair copy" and not as a working "book of shadows" as >> Gardener called similar things much later in his Wicca innovation. >> There are no corrections in the text, bad scribbles lined out or >> anything of that sort. > >With all due respect, there is at least one strike-through (p 26). The >scribe wrote "fig", crossed it out with four diagonal lines, and wrote >"fire" instead. Still, your point stands. The manuscript definitely >appears to be fair copy, prepared to whatever end. Was the scribe >working from Ebenezer Sibley's translation, do you think? I have only >the chapter headings from the latter with which to make a comparison, >but Raphael looks suspiciously like a transcription in some places and >a paraphrase in others. Difficult to say. For that matter, a lot of these "translations" are bogus as such. The MSS are common enough in English and often by unknown hands. There's a grimorie in the British Museum that apparently belonged to Ben Johnson of Elizabethan times, possibly part of his study for The Achemist. English language sources are hard to pin down to original. >> The author did not display a deep knowledge of the subject, but >> merely transcribed and added shallow comment. The treatment of the >> Intelligences and Spirits of the Planets is akin to that adopted in >> the Golden Dawn. > >This is part of what I've found interesting about this volume. The >date 1880 is somewhat suggestive. Bulwer Lytton quotes the French text >of Rabbi Solomon - that of M Pierre Morissoneau - in Zanoni. I think the date just conforms to a period of popularity of the subject books. Grimories go in and out of interest every few generations. 93 93/93 Bill Heidrick heidrick@well.com