Path: typhoon.sonic.net!pants.skycache.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!news.laserlink.net!not-for-mail From: MERKVRIVS Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.necronomicon,alt.horror.cthulhu,sci.skeptic,alt.paranet.skeptic Subject: Re: The Book of Power: Evaluating the Necronomicon (was ...) Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 22:51:15 -0600 Organization: laserlink.net Lines: 81 Message-ID: <38C1E7C3.465EC126@magick.nu> References: <38BE9E43.FD862EF6@magick.nu> <89mks2$ha0@bolt.sonic.net> <38C012C4.F59D0AFC@magick.nu> <89qf9d$rhi@bolt.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.laserlink.net 952231188 11925 63.30.52.200 (5 Mar 2000 04:39:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@laserlink.net X-Sender: "MERKVRIVS" (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; I) Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:21859 alt.magick:181875 alt.necronomicon:10333 alt.horror.cthulhu:53874 sci.skeptic:397517 alt.paranet.skeptic:21078 > when you say "some arcane language", would you expect this to be > alien, cyphered, symbolic and personal, or isolated to a particular > culture in human history and geography? > That would depend upon its actual origin. It need not even reflect Sumerian culture but there would be a bias towards expecting it to reflect some elements of the times from whence it originated. Unless the text itself literally was dropped from outer space (or where ever) the text would bare the marks of the author who could not help but to bare the marks of his/her time. > have you compared Lovecraft with "Nightside of Eden" by Grant, > which is based on Crowley, or other books by Kenneth Grant > (Skoob bookS)? > Regrettably I have little famialarity other than an overview of Grant's work having only read some of his online material (maybe a book or two way back when) and the comments of others upon his work (I read mostly tech crap these days). From what Ive gathered (and I may be mistaken) but he overall appears to be making something of a study of the Qlippoth himself. Im not sure how it would compare to HPL for imagery vs. Grant's but I would imagine the general psychology of it is not to far off just given a bit more structure (if you care to call it that - it is the Qlippoth which doesnt map well given its nature) with the Qabalah. > then why does Daniel Harms write: > # ... many of the elements of the mythology (the Sumerian link, > # those copies bound in human skin) don't show up in Lovecraft. > > ?? when he says "the Sumerian link" is he talking about > something specific for whch you have already accounted? > Covered that one already in part. I dont necessarily recall a specific link in HPL's work - there may not be one. It may merely be the suggestion of the idea from the modern myths that have grown around the _Necronomicon_. Wouldnt surprise me in the least if this were the case. Im not even certain that it is alluded to beyond perhaps the Star of the Covenant (or even there) that the Ancient Ones and Elder Gods ever had dealings with the human race until the people of Lovecraft's stories (re)awoke them (at least in Lovecraft's mythos). However, as to *a* Sumerian link: Sumeria was an archeological hotspot briefly during Lovecraft's day. As to similarities or links: the basic outline of his story closely resembles many myths including Sumerian, Gnostic and many others. The Ancient Ones are are equivalent to the Sumerian Annunaki and the Gnostic Archons. There are generally depicted in myth as sort of a hybrid reptilian mutant demi-god race. This was followed by another race which is generally depicted as being more asthetic to behold. This race would be the Sumerian Igigi (or Watchers) and the Gnostic Aeons, repectively. I could add to this list the Biblical Nephilim (lit. 'fallen ones' gen. transl. as 'giants' also referred to as Watchers - _Book of Enoch_, _Book of Watchers_), the Greek Titans ('giants' also referred to as the Elder Gods) and the Celtic Formori but that gives rise to the question (at least for me) of what to do with the 3rd category or race(s) that rises out of this (the Olympians, the Tuatha and so on) or is it merely a rehash of the previous two. Personally I lean towards a listing of 3 primary categories as given here but my intuition seems to feels that this leaves a gap or void somewhere but then again maybe thats when humans come into play as a 4th race (5 if you include which ever almighty(s) you want to attribute to having started the whole thing). But then again maybe Lovecraft just pulled it from his imagination, the collective unconscious, genetic memory or whatever. Maybe this will help: My 'Book of the Earth Gods' project: http://psychonomicon.magick.nu/library/earthgods/liber_deum_terrestris.html Merk