From www@deja.com Sun Feb 20 20:09:52 2000 Return-Path: www@deja.com Received: from m2.deja.com (m2.deja.com [208.10.192.33]) by prop.sonic.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27855 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:09:51 -0800 X-envelope-info: Received: from x37.deja.com (ix37.deja.com [10.2.1.237]) by m2.deja.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28303 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:09:20 -0600 Received: (from www@deja.com) by x37.deja.com (8.8.7/8.6.12) id WAA27175; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:09:19 -0600 Message-Id: <200002210409.WAA27175@x37.deja.com> From: vonjunzt@hotmail.com To: nagasiva@luckymojo.com Subject: Re: Evaluating Necronomicons (was The Necronomicon) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 04:09:18 GMT Newsgroups: alt.magick.goetia,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.necronomicon,alt.magick NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.205.246.35 Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. References: <88bm0l$l7v$1@watserv3.uwaterloo.ca> <20000216173045.03883.00001570@ng-ce1.aol.com> <88gf57$fan@bolt.sonic.net> <88ioet$d5v$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <88p6q3$i38@bolt.sonic.net> X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Feb 21 04:09:18 2000 GMT X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x21.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 128.205.246.35 X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav) X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDvonjunzt Status: RO In article <88p6q3$i38@bolt.sonic.net>, spam@luckymojo.com wrote: > vonjunzt@hotmail.com: > >At some point, I should really write a rebuttal to this. After > >all, I did read _Hidden Teachings of Tibet: An Explanation of > >the Terma Tradition of Tibetan Buddhism_ by Tulku Thondup > >Rinpoche, as a result of Tyagi's essay. > pertinent quotes? This is from the book's translation of the Wonder Ocean: An Explanation of the Dharma Treasure Tradition, by the Third Dodrup Chen Rimpoche. I make no apology for the snips, but I'll do the best not to distort the issues by doing so. To establish the existence of false termas within the tradition: The reason contrary and inauspicious results occur when some Termas are practiced is that there are false discovered teachings. In particular there are false texts that look like Terma script, and which are by false Tertons [the discoverers of Terma], the rebirths of wrongly aspiring evil ministers of the ancient time who have the support of certain demonic spirits as the protectors of these Termas. (p. 154) How one who receives a Terma is to be evaluated for truthfulness: There are two ways of examining Tertons according to the earlier Knowledge-holders (Rig a'Dzin). The first is to receive clarification of the authenticity of the Terton from a divinity such as one of the Three Roots... The second way is to examine by means of proofs from scripture and reasoning... Nowadays, however, it is rare for someone to have the capacity to examine a Terton by the first means. In the second case it is difficult for no error to be made in an examination just by people who regard themselves as scholars. (p. 158) But what of the person's character?: One cannot judge Tertons as inauthentic because of their imperfect and mercurial character, even to the slightest extent. (p. 157) Now, to the meat of my contention. (Note that this seems specific in its scope, but it doesn't seem to contrast this with any other terma tradition.) All the Dharma teachings concealed by Guru Rinpoche are for the accomplishment of the future followers, and it is impossible for them to have an inauspicious result... Nevertheless, Termas have varying results. Many are auspicious, some are not. It depends on auspicious and favorable and inauspicious and unfavorable circumstances at the outset, determined by whether or not the Tertons, according to the orders of Guru Rinpoche, were able to fulfill the performance of such actions as making proper offerings to the treasure protectors, putting substitutes in the concealment place of the teachings, practicing effectuation of the Ter [Terma] and maintaining the secrecy of the teachings when they have discovered them, and so on. It also depends on whether the Tertons could meet their consorts under proper circumstances, whether they were able to follow the instructions left behind by Guru Rinpoche for them, whether the doctrine- holder could practice the teachings as explained in the discovered text, and so on. In brief, the auspiciousness or inauspiciousness of the teachings result from whether or not the sacred obligations [vows: Dam Tshig] are properly observed. (pp. 154-55) -- Yrs., Daniel Harms http://www.necfiles.com/