Path: typhoon.sonic.net!pants.skycache.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!europa.netcrusader.net!198.138.0.5!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!news-feeds.jump.net!solomon.io.com!hiram.io.com!taliesin From: taliesin@NOSPAMio.com (G. Leake ) Newsgroups: alt.magick Subject: Re: which qabalistic tree? Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:17:31 -0600 Organization: Illuminati Online Lines: 51 Message-ID: References: <88nqre$o50$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <88qjjc$fqf$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Trace: hiram.io.com 951606855 8386 206.224.82.95 (26 Feb 2000 23:14:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@io.com X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:180865 >gdwatcher@aol.com wrote: >>I have been doing some research on the Qabalah. Jewish and Hermetic. And I have come across something rather puzzling. Can someone help? The Qabalistic system that I know is based on Wescott's translation of the Sepher Yetzirah and I excepted it in my heart. I recently purchased a copy of Kaplan's translation. Much to my suprise, I discovered major difference in the placement of the Hebrew letters on the Tree. philonius@my-deja.com wrote: > If you're interested in the historical development of the Qabalah > ( or kabbalah if you like), I would recomend you dive into the works of > Gershom Scholem, he has written many fine scholarly works on the > historical Qabalah. *yeah, well first to Philonius' point--Scholem surely is merely the starting point for people wanting to begin plumbing the depths of the Jewish tradition of QBL--something that is *far more complex and deep* than the Western Magickal appropriation of QBL. *secondly, gdwatcher, it is best not to use the misleading catch phrases like "Hermetic QBL" used by modern and contemporary Western Magickal pundits. I know what you mean, generally, but it might serve your argument better to right off the top say you're talking about Westcott's QBL--this way we know you speak of him, not Levi, not Case, nor say one of the crappy contemporary New Age QBL types. *the problem, gdwatcher, is twofold. Philonius has indicated one part of it--the Western Magickal QBLists have only appropriated a partial or shallow amount of QBL. An example, here I'll even criticize a Western Magickal voice I generally like--Aleister Crowley's "The Wake World" (in _Konx Om Pax_) is a wonderful fantasy world at first glance, but people familiar with QBL will soon guess at his use of QBList symbolism, but of course filtered through his lens of ritual sadism & sex magick. *but contrast the fanciful Roger Dean-esque vision of "The Wake World" to any part of The Zohar--need I say more. The effect is like comparing the splendours of Coney Island or the Los Angeles live music scene to the Taj Mahal, or the assembled learning of Timbuktu, or the architectural marvels surviving from the Renaissance throughout Italy. *the other part of the problem should be plain to anyone who's done a close reading of at least three Western Magickal pundits of QBL--its certainly apparent from reading the Zohar--there are many perspectives on QBL--thus you're certainly going to get different takes like the one you describe, and even varying depictions of the Tree of Life (dig Kaplan's Sefer Yetsirah). Not to mention the fact that Western Magicians and other Esotericists employ QBL in varying ways (need I point out that the use of QBL in Western Magick is a recent development?).