Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nagasiva yronwode) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.christnet.demonology,alt.magick Subject: Evoking Angels and Invoking Demons (was Angels and Demons) Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 67 Sender: yronwode@sonic.net Message-ID: <8av5cq$1m6@bolt.sonic.net> References: <38CB6957.C61189EE@interact.net.au> <38CC6786.FE722596@worldnet.att.net> Reply-To: spam@luckymojo.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.4 (NOV) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 05:49:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.224.36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 953358555 208.201.224.36 (Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:49:15 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 21:49:15 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:22110 alt.christnet.demonology:10301 alt.magick:183735 50000317 IVom kali Reuben wrote: >> Why is it considered bad form to evoke angels? because angels are "friendly spirits". this rudimentary description system has been formalized into a dogma by religious for years. the term 'angel' literally means 'messenger' and the idea is that the friendly ones have messenges from their "superior" (this from a rather hierarchic perspective, usually Judeochristian, but not always). the 'evoking' is an intentional separation between yourself and the spirit so called. to call them out, so to speak, is like calling your mother on the phone when you're sitting next to her at the movies: it could be considered 'rude' or 'harmful to your relationship with the spirit'. some actually think that the mechanism is confining and therefore painful to the entity evoked, even if you don't call them into some triangular (or whatever shape) container. in this way it would be like putting your best friend into a cage and grilling hir to be sure she is "of no danger to you" during your interaction. it would be considered highly rude. Fate's Knight : >Because generally the reasons people have for summoning messangers of God >has to do with expansion of the ego and other manifestations of Pride. this seems to fly in the face of most spirit-summoner descriptions. usually the angels are summoned for assistance or protection, rather than for egotistic purposes (which are usually the objective of those calling up supposedly neutral or antagonistic entities -- I say 'supposedly' because I think that the propaganda surrounding certain groups of spirits may be completely hype biased by the perspective of the author of the codex spiritum). >Angels don't resond well to that sort of thing. what would be the problem with summoning them? I gather that the Christian spiritual agents don't like egotistical development and want their magicians humble and subservient to the chieftain god. this would explain why they try to keep the fear-factor high. >> I've been told that it is disrespectful, but if the conjuration doesn't >> rely on threats and imperious commands... when you can invite them to be with you (i.e. you can invoke them and commune with them directly), and you are convinced of their beneficence with respect to you (i.e. you have faith in the proper deities, are reconciled to follow the proper religious rules, and generally feel aligned with these battle-sides), then wouldn't it look a little SUSPICIOUS to treat them somewhat like strangers? >If you do it with a pure intent and try to maintain a sense of self and try >to keep a good heart, then it can be a very rewarding experience. good advice. most spirits, when approached in this manner, would probably react hospitably, except the very wild ones. of course it may depend upon your previous interactions, what you smell like, who your friends are, etc. if you are an anti-demon freak and you invoke Beelzebub, you might not like the results. blessed beast! nagasiva -- mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/ emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired