Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nagasiva yronwode) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.magick.pagan,alt.magick.tantra Subject: Re: The Western "Chakra" System Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 91 Sender: yronwode@sonic.net Message-ID: <8f2ojs$8vc@bolt.sonic.net> References: <3909d51d.14210355@news> <8eaos0$1nv5$1@nnrp9.crl.com> <3908f1cb.21549612@news> Reply-To: spam@luckymojo.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.4 (NOV) Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 03:40:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.224.36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 957670829 208.201.224.36 (Sat, 06 May 2000 20:40:29 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 20:40:29 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:22975 alt.magick:191461 alt.magick.tantra:15697 50000507 IVom uncited: >>>You are certainly right about this -- and the term "false color" >>>should not be used. It is actually "imposed color" or "projected >>>color". For several years I was intimidated by the Blavatskey/Arthur >>>Avalon idea that these things were set in concrete and that "real >>>adepts" through out the East all followed the system of Avalon as >>>scryed by Leadbetter. Then I began practicing with Eastern people >>>(Tibetans) and discovered that they had a different set of chakra's >>>for each deity in their pantheon! [Idries] Shah, in his book *The Sufis* >>>says that the chakras are subjective and that you can establish them >>>on any sensible arrangement or scheme you choose, so long as you are >>>consistent about it. yes, a language upon which to place one's subjective experiences. I'd compare it with any system of divination. Crowley was attempting to fabricate such a personal language in "777". Tzimon/"Vrsabha" : >>We start with the same thing and change it around to suit our ends. The >>Eastern traditions would differ, I think, as to the arbitrary nature of >>associated colors, sounds, deities, etc., at the initial state... but the >>idea of mutability is right on. Gnomedplume@aol.net (Gnome d Plume): >Thanks for your support on this vital point. If we must have a >traditional peg to hang a Western Chakra system on then the drawing by >the 17th century German Hermetic philosopher Johann Gitchel is made to >order -- in fact it shows the traditional planets exactly in the >descending order they would be in if the "Lightning Flash" Tree of >Life sequence is followed. This was one of our inspirations in >developing the Western System. I believe that Issac Luria had the idea >that Chokmah and Binah represented the right and left hemispheres of >the human brain way back before there was any "right-brain, >left-brain" theorizing (Regardie used this concept in his Middle >Pillar layout). Gitchel places Jupiter (Chesed) in the Third Eye, and >so on down to The Moon in the genital area. This puts the solar chakra >(Tiphareth) in the chest as the heart chakra. Netsach in the solar >plexus, and Hod (Mercury) below the navel where most Tibetan systems >generate their tumo (heat). why is there a dissonance between the "solar plexus" (Netzach), "solar chakra" (Tiphareth), and the "heat-origin" (Hod)? why aren't these coincident? >It seems a shame that more Western magicians haven't adopted >this scheme - perhaps because we published it in 1977, and magicians, >being fiercely egotistical, don't want to have a "me too" chakra >system. more likely it just hasn't received enough attention to be widely accepted. typically publication and widespread instruction yields proliferation of knowledge-systems, especially about divinatory and mystico-religious results. >...why not take what we've done, cite >Gitchel (as we have)build on it and come up with some improvements? because there are more interesting mapping foci which serve just as well. why don't we all convert to Roman Catholicism? it works for so many people, after all. >...the important thing is to advance our magick here in the West >to the same level of inner perfection that our Eastern brothers >have achieved. the typical method includes promotion of advancement, adoption by socialized gurus, and integration into a culture through force or favour. competing lineages of mystics typically will agree to disagree as to the spiritual-assessment-schemes and be quiet about the fact that they think theirs is the best or quite vocal and gain a reputation for arrogance. >Without a full >chakra system, we are severely handicapped in this regard.***** there are many available through Western sources. to a certain extent the emphasis is on INDIVIDUAL CONSTRUCTION, and the idea of some kind of 'convention' usually arises within orders such as the Golden Dawn, Ordo Templi Orientis, or some other cultus. becoming convinced of the 'perfection' of these systems is as simple as taking any other leap of faith. it is a dream of the Herd to create the Final Perfect Mechanism of Ascension. blessed beast! nagasiva -- mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/ emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired