Path: Supernews69!kudonet.com!not-for-mail From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.order,alt.pagan.magick,talk.religion.misc Subject: PZalweski: Enochian Magick Followup-To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.order,alt.pagan.magick,talk.religion.misc,alt.magick Date: 8 Jul 1997 18:47:24 -0700 Organization: KudoNet On-Line Services Lines: 57 Sender: tyagi@bjt.net Message-ID: <5puqjc$lbb@kudo20.kudonet.com> References: <5pf529$mri$1@news.ramhb.co.nz> Reply-To: zirdo@ramhb.co.nz (Pat Zalweski) NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.227.52.9 X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Xref: Supernews69 alt.magick.tyagi:13495 alt.magick.order:763 alt.pagan.magick:5325 talk.religion.misc:302878 [from alt.magick: zirdo@ramhb.co.nz (Pat Zalweski)] Recently I was reading a post by George Leake and the quote in that post that most books on Enochian magick were not worth the paper they were written on. I was not sure if it was george or petersen (I hope I have spelled the name right) who posted some work on a Dee site. It really gets to be a laugh and a giggle when you read all this. Many historians, and that's what many of them are, say you use the Dee system this way, with the inference that it cannot be done effectively outside of the framework set up Dee and the angelic being he contacted (through Kelley). If you use the Dee system you get angelic beings and you may as well buy davidsons books on angels and pick one for the desired task.Or better still pick one or two from old Book of Enoch. For that's about it. You have tabulations for functions, and places goverened as well as times to invoke the angel required and calls to call them. Looking at this from and occultists perspective, the original system is very skelatonic.Those (like me) who use ad hoc variations follow general trends of fusing one system with another to give it more power and direction. The GD system is but only ONE example of this. I have also experimented with many more. I must say I have had good results from this and it works for me. Possibly the fellow down the road would use a different methodology. But if it works for him then fine. For some strange reason both magicians and historians alike get very defensive about Enochian magick with their publication or mss being authentic.Petersen may be a case in point and also Robert Turner who really kicks the shit out of his predecessors publications in his Elizabethan Magick. I was lucky enough to escape his venom as my book `GD Enochian Magick' came out after his. But I usually have a smile when I think of the contribution he made to the `Necromonicon' ( even I would not go that far) and its connection to Dee. But if it works for Robert then I say good luck to him. Some time ago I discussed this briefly with Enochian expert Clay Holden. Clay came upfront and told me about the errors in my book. I told him that the corrections I made to my copy would probably out weigh his. I just wonder how many of those Dee historians have actually worked the Enochian system magickly? To give Turner his due he has, but so have a lot of others. I worked it strickly according to Dee manuscripts and plus other versions.The bottom line here is not to be pedantic about what methodology to use, but if the thing works. That is its bottom line. You have to recognise what does work in the Dee system and what does not, For that is the criteria in which the Dee angels should be judged. I even catergorise Gerry Scheuler's work under this criteria. His Enochian system may be so far off the planet that it by passed Pluto in orbit, but for Gerry it is a system. Dr. Rudd is another example of tampering. The first rule I ever learned in Magick was to gather as much potency around me as possible for a working, and with the Dee angels one can also add a great deal more. We will never know the full extent of the original system. Too much was lost or perhaps not given. There are hints of talismanic work and also by linking angels together from different structures to do ones bidding. But all of us who work the system should get their feet wet first before jumping on the pedantic bandwagon and dismissing everyones else's work as rubbish. There is too much of that in the halls of academia at present without its crossover into magick. Pat -- (emailed replies may be posted) ------- join the AMT syncretism!!! see http://www.abyss.com/tokus ---------- call: 408/2-666-SLUG!! "sa avidya ya vimuktaye" -- "that which liberates is ignorance"