Path: typhoon.sonic.net!feed.news.sonic.net!166.88.5.10.MISMATCH!news.kjsl.com!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!news-east.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-la!news-in-la.newsfeeds.com!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: Gnomedplume@aol.com (Gnome d Plume) Newsgroups: alt.magick Subject: Re: Ceremonial Magick besides GD & offspring Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:05:12 GMT Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3c9f9ece.16627976@trialnews.peoplepc.com> References: <3c9ea5b6.35696698@trialnews.peoplepc.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 76 Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:294456 On 25 Mar 2002 03:36:29 -0800, bloodofenoch@goddamnfruit.com (Andralphus) wrote: >> ******I think you should look at the O.T.A. system. Although we do use >> G.D. correspondences and we do appreciate Bardon, we are primarily a >> shamanic, visionary and very much Canaanite Pagan version of Solomonic >> magick--in fact we are the only ceremonial magick lodge that regularly >> conjures spirits to visible appearance in the Dark Mirror on Solomon's >> Triangle of Art. Visit our web site at: >> http://members.aol.com/CHSOTA/welcome.html and read our free download >> instructive articles. ******* > >Hi Gnome, > >Yes, I am aware of OTA. And I do think your effort to revivify >Solomonic magick is one of the most interesting things going on in >occultism today. > >I guess you might be the closest thing to what I'm looking for. But I >had hoped to find some group practicing that had their own independent >system started before the widespread availability of the Regardie >material and not indebted to the GD for things like tables of >correspondences or banishing rituals. > >It appears that I'm not going to find that. Which casts an >interesting light on the history of magick. > >> Good Magick! > >You too! > >- Andralphus ******Thanks for the kind words. Actually we look at the G.D. correspondences as a fine tuning of Trithimius/Agrippa--which is the basic Western Tradition for G.D., O.T.O., Martinists, H.B.L., AMORC and so-on. They can also be applied to Bardon (if you don't use his "Qabballah") and certainly the Thelemites use them. There is an advantage to a universal acceptance of the G.D. alphabetic QBL/astrological/planetary/elemental assignments and color scales. It gives us all a common symbolic magical language without restricting our creativity. In our case we have gone forward to develop a full straight line QBL chakra system, an eleven sphere/25 path Tree of Life and a linking of the Goetia and Almadel systems (both revised) --and all of this within the basic framework of the G.D. attributions. Just think of *777* as "The magical symbol language" and then use whatever mythology and ritual structure you like. In our case we base our initiations on the Crata Repoa, which is a hundred years older than the G.D., and we use Canaanite mythology for our god and goddess forms. I know what you are saying, however---if we all have to use a symbol system no older than 1860 (approximately when Mackenzie wrote the *Cypher Manuscript* see note below) then we aren't very ancient. . . . well, you can look at it that way, but when you consider all of the really ancient material that was sifted, rectified, polished-up and fine-tunned by our British Rosecrucian brothers in the Victorian era, it seems counter-productive to re-invent the wheel, so-to-speak. Sure, there were Western magical systems in operation before the 1870s (Martinists, German Rosicrucians, P.B. Randolph, etc.) but their correspondences have not stood the test of time nor were they that well developed. I have no problem with using 1870s G.D. symbols in a 1770s Crata Repoa structure. Magick is as ancient as Alexandria, the Sabians of Harran, the theurgy of Bruno and Dee--and as modern as Crowley, Bardon, and Case. We are very eclectic and always have been. The Sabians reeled off gods and angels from every religion on earth in their conjurations! If you find, as we did, a forgotten magical system from the years before the G.D., you will still probably end up using G.D. correspondences with it for the same reason we did: they are the most complete, the best worked-out, and the most effective. ****** Good Magick! Gnome d Plume (*Secrets of the Golden Dawn Cypher Manuscript* is available from us and also from Amazon or Barnes & Noble.) http://members.aol.com/CHSOTA/productions.html