Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3EF0E684.9CA12FB7@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Reply-To: cat@luckymojo.com Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Co. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.tantra,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.lucky.w Subject: Re: Why Is There An Issue With Payment For Magickal Instruction? References: <0paHa.79128$Xl.1451435@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com> <6thqev8kipgl85qomqkmbp59o8n1fbcmg1@4ax.com> <80jHa.79234$Xl.1476188@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 86 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 22:14:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.150.73 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1055974447 209.204.150.73 (Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:14:07 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 15:14:07 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:349539 alt.magick.tantra:20643 alt.magick.tyagi:40145 alt.lucky.w:15483 Old Coyote wrote: > > "THE Talesin" wrote : > > > Jeff Caliban Crow wrote: > > > I'm not sure I understand why some here believe that a teacher > > > of magickal practice, be it wicca, ceremonial magick, vodu or > > > whatever, is not entitled to charge for the instruction they > > > give. Actually: A) Voodoo (Vodu) is the state religion of the African nation of Benin and the majority religion in the nation of Haiti. Like many other non-Christian religions, it accepts magical practice as part of its cosmological backdrop, but it is not "magick" per se -- it is a conventional religion with deity, clergy, laity, and houses of worship. B) In Voodoo there is a definite and agreed-upon system of payment for all works of blessing, magic, initiation, healing, and ceremony -- and the practitioners (including clergy and lay musicians) are always paid for their services directly, not through tips, tithes, or donations. > > > Since when is it a right of anyone's to obtain their education > > > for free? Why is a university professor of religion entitled to > > > be paid but not a high priestess of _________ ? Clerical service performed for the laity is different than teaching magick. Even when a religion includes magickal practice within its boundaries, the distinction between the performance of clerical duties and teaching still holds. In Christianity, for example, one can attend church services for free (or make a voluntary donation), but in order to receive religious training, one must enroll at a seminary or in a school which has "religion" courses -- for which there is a charge. A High Priestess in a neo-pagan religion is a cleric, in essence, and performs religious services. Depending upon the cultural norm for the religion in question, the clergy is either paid or accepts donations or tithes. Teaching, however, will be paid -- and is, at neo-pagan festivals and seminars with entrance fees, through correspondence courses, and in other venues. > > The reason that teachers of magick do not get paid is because the > > field is rife with know-nothing charlatans and posers [...] who > > just pull things out of their ass. > > Nope, that's not the reason. > > Fact is every market is plauged by crappy products, > not just the market for magickal instruction. > > By your reasoning, no-one would be able to charge > money for clothing becase Wal-Mart sells crap. > > Does that make sense to you? Doesn't make sense to me. But teachers of magick ARE paid, so this side-issue is based on a false premise. What Caliban asked was why certain people in the neo-pagan movement oppose such payment. No one has addressed that issue. For myself, all i can say is that the mind-set that Caliban describes is -- in my opinion -- found quite often in the European-American magickal community, but is not all that evident in the African-American or Jewish-American sub-cultures, where there is no onus on asking for or receiving payment for teaching religious or magical subjects to students. Hope that helps. cat yronwode Correspondence Course ------ http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocourse.html