Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3E51BF81.172FF67A@luckymojo.com> From: catherine yronwode Reply-To: order@luckymojo.com Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Co. 707-887-1521 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.lucky.w,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic Subject: Re: The Conqueror Root: Joan or John References: <1045f49.0302162026.49419273@posting.google.com> <3E507710.6EB3AAF2@luckymojo.com> <1045f49.0302171936.7e527a82@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 162 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:57:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.150.148 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1045544242 209.204.150.148 (Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:57:22 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:57:22 PST Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.lucky.w:13727 alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic:36048 Ramona wrote: > > catherine yronwode wrote: > > > Ramona wrote: > > > I have come across (in reading) the term "St Joan the Conqueror > > > Root". The herb in question would be used for similar workings as > > > High John the Conqueror root. Are they the same? > > > > I have never heard, seen, or read mention of Saint Joan the Conqueror > > Root. > > > > Where did you read this? > > > > I do have a comment, though, which may be helpful -- > > > > Many people in the South pronounce the name John as sort of closer to > > Joan than to a Northern-style Jahn. Ditto for the name Tommy, which in > > the South often sounds like Toe-Mee rather than the Northern Tah-Mee > > > > You can really see this in the name of the old blues singer Tommy > > Johnson, which in the South almost sounds like Toe-Mee Joan-Son rather > > than Tah-Mee Jahn-Son. Similarly, the name Johnny Thompson would in > > the South sound more like Joan-Ee Tome-Son instead of the > > Northern-sounding John-Ee Tahm-Son. > > > > Is it possible that the person you got this from was unable to fully > > understand a Southern speaker's accent and then confused John the > > Conquer Root with Saint John's Wort? (Wort is an old English word for > > root.) The two are entirely different plants. St. Johns Wort is not > > used in hoodoo practice as far as i know. > > > > Read more at this web page on John the Conquer Root > > http://www.luckymojo.com/johntheconqueror.html > > The authors that mentioned a Joan the Conqueror were Ffiona Morgan and > Susun Weed (I think, it's been a while) I am unfamiliar with them. > I had about decided that Joan > the Conqueror and John the COnqueror were the same thing, with the > former being some sort of feminist revision/renaming. Then I did a > "google" this evening and found lisitngs for both. The Latin for Joan > the Conqueror is Allpinia Camporacea. It's also known as Jalop root. Ah, but, your sources make no botanical sense. (No offense, that's just the truth :-) Here's why. Alpinia is the genus that contains the plant known in Thai and Cambodian cookery as Galangal or, in Southern US rural terms, Little John to Chew, Chewing John, Low John, and Court Case Root. It is a relative of Ginger and is in the Ginger family. Some people call it Brown Ginger or Wild Ginger. (There is another plant also called Wild Ginger that is NOT related to Ginger, but that one is never called "John.") None of the Alpinia plants are known as St. Joan or as Joan anything, to the best of my knowledge. The names Little John and Low John refer to the fact that the plant does not climb up like High John (see below). The name Little John to Chew and Chewing John refer to the fact that the root is edible and calming to the stomach when it is chewed and the juice swallowed. Saying that another name for Alpinia is Jalap is a potentially serious error on the part of the sources you consulted. A plant cannot be both an Alpinia and also Jalap. The two families of plants are entirely different. Jalop Root, also spelled Jalap Root, is the root of Ipomoea jalapa. It is highly dangerous to chew and swallow it as one would chew and swallow Chewing John (Alpinia). It can be made into medicine, but it must be used in strictly measured doses. The US Food and Drug Administration lists it as a "toxic" plant. Jalap is in the Morning Glory (Ipomoea) family, not the Ginger family. It is a close relative of the toxic Morning Glory and the non-toxic Sweet Potato (Ipomoea batatas). > Usages include Law, Justice and Business. That sounds like Little John to Chew (Alpinia), which is also called Court Case Root. Chewing a Little John root while in court is a very old African-American hoodoo custom to win and have your way. But chewing High John (Jalap) will land you either in the toilet or in the hospital, depending on how much you chew. > HIgh John the C root has a different latin : Ipomoea Purga, Ipomoea purga is just an older name for Ipomoea jalapa. The names refer to the same plant. "Purga" means it purges you -- it will give you liquid diarrhea if eaten. ("a debilitating hydrogogue cathartic" is how one of my old medical books describes it). "Jalapa" means it was first noted by a European-trained botanist growing near the city of Xalapa (also spelled Jalapa), Mexico. It is native to Mexico, Florida, Louisiana, Alabama, and parts of Mississippi. The name High John the Conquer refers to the fact that the Ipomoea is a vine and grows up ("high") on other plants. In magic the uses of High John are to strengthen, bring victory, enhance gambling luck, and give men more power. The Iroquois Indians called a related Ipomoea root -- I. pandurata -- "Man in the Earth Root" and used it the same way, in magic for power and male vitality. The I. pandurata species is also called High John the Conquer by African-American root doctors. It grows in a range that overlaps the I. jalapa, but extends farther North, all the way to New York state. The uses of High John -- both jalapa and pandurata -- are magical, but only when carried on the person or made into a dressing oil or powders. The root is not to be eaten unless you was to spend a few hours in the can crapping yourself into a state of exhaustion. Notice how dissimilar that is from the stomach-soothing Low John or Little John Chew! > and John the C Root is Trillium grandiflorum. This is the third of the John roots, known variously as Beth Root, Wild Trillium, Wake-Robin, Birth Root, Dixie John, and Southern John. I have never heard it called John the Conquer. The term Conquer (spelled Conqueror by most white folks, but always pronounced Conquer in the African-American community) is reserved for High John, for a variety of reasons. Birth Root or Dixie John is used medically to assist at childbirth by preventing hemorrhaging. Magically it enhances family and married life and is especially lucky for love. It is an ingredient in Dixie Love Oil. > It should be noted that the sites where I found the info > on Joan the C root were Wiccan/Pagan oriented, not necessarily folk > magick..... Since the name John the Conquer is of purely African origin and since this name John (not Joan) is found universally in the African-American community to refer to Jalap (High John the Conquer), Alpinia (Little John, Chewing John, or Low John), and Trillium (Dixie John or Southern John), i would look to African-American sources, not Wicca sources, for accurate information on the three John roots and their uses. You can find all of this information (and lots more about the three roots and how they are used in magic) on the web page i cited above, and there are also many practical recipes and spells employing all three of them described in my book "Hoodoo Herb and Root Magic." Of special interest is a mojo hand made with all three John roots that is carried for triple-luck in money, legal, and love matters. Good luck to you! cat yronwode Hoodoo Herb and Root Magic http://www.luckymojo.com/hoodooherbmagic.html