Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.thelema,alt.pagan.magick Subject: Thelemic Magic: Beyond Crowley, Occultism From: 333 Reply-To: spam@yronwode.com User-Agent: nn/6.6.0 Lines: 71 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 06:07:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1023170827 208.201.242.18 (Mon, 03 Jun 2002 23:07:07 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 23:07:07 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:32846 alt.magick:304038 alt.pagan.magick:33096 Orig-To: http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/thelema93-l 50000120 IVom 333: >> ...how is Thelema related to occultism and why? > You have a lovely way of stating things that whirl around in my mind, > unexpressed. I'm also confounded on what makes a magical method > "Thelemic" as opposed to "unthelemic", and why that should matter. as nobody appears to be running with this one, I'd like to take a shot at it myself. Thelema is related to occultism in that 'will' is the primary variable behind magical power and success. the technique of the Magical Link (as Crowley called it in "Book Four") is the necessary which is fueled by this will (thus I have elsewhere called it 'willforce' and many before me 'willpower'). the reason that many wish to call a magical method 'Thelemic' or indeed to encompass it within an instruction envelope they call 'Thelema' is that it genericizes it and therefore gives their identification an air of authority. there is a direct comparison when the Wiccan calls hir religion "witchcraft" and expects that this should be considered the only and most authoritative type of witchery (rather than, say, the herbal and magical wiles of countless peasants throughout the world that preceded hir). there is another reason which proceeds from the cultism that runs rampant around Crowleyanity: that which is called 'Thelemic' may be associated with the various salvation and social works programs that are promoted by 'Thelemic organizations' under this banner. whether they are indeed 'Thelemic' in the sense to which I refer (supporting and inspiring individual will and the potential for its free expression) would need be evaluated individually (I have repeatedly claimed that organizations are not so supportive, in their overall result, and I've yet to see evidence that contradicts this). > Is it the frame? What would make a thelemic frame more > effective than any other frame? it is cultspeak. when you call something by the preferred name (like 'Christian' amongst Christians or 'Buddhist' amongst Buddhists), then this makes clear your approval of its integrity to the Herd behavior and ecclesiastical norm. actually, the reason 'Thelemic' is best applied to liberative magical enterprises is that they are INDIVIDUAL, WILL-BASED OPERATIONS DESIGNED TO DEPROGRAM THE INDIVIDUAL AND REVEAL HIR GENIUS TO THE WORLD. this might take place through ordeal, through an act of stupendous achievement, through the construction of a cult for the Herd to follow, or any other of a number of works. > As it stands, it appears that the frame "Thelema" is a misnomer > for Crowley's Judeo/Greco/Christian/Oriental/Pagan Stew. Not that > it's too much of a problem, just that stew by any other name is > still stew. my aim is to replace that for 'Crowleyanity' and reserve 'Thelema' for something much more substantive. your queries in response to mine were quite inspiring. thanks. blessed beast! ______________________________________________________________________ (333) nagasiva@luckymojo.com; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html I don't read everything here; cc me if you absolutely want a response.