Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.consciousness.mysticism,alt.magick.tantra,alt.magick Subject: SOCs and Magic (was Subjective experience ...) References: <3CD9CA65.280F1C32@student.canterbury.ac.nz> <3CDFBDE1.E313789C@earthlink.net> <3876d067.0205141129.4de2aecd@posting.google.com> From: nagasiva Reply-To: spam@yronwode.com (States of Consciousness (SOCs; cf. Tart, others) and magic) User-Agent: nn/6.6.0 Lines: 50 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:03:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1022756590 208.201.242.18 (Thu, 30 May 2002 04:03:10 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 04:03:10 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:32735 alt.consciousness.mysticism:55679 alt.magick.tantra:19588 alt.magick:303227 50020530 VIom osirified_skorpion@yahoo.com (Scorpion-of-Osiris): > There's a reason why the incense is so thick. just one? and I thought it's cuz everyone loves Mullein so much. > In the brazier is > burning hallucinogens. Nostradamus burned nutmeg, and 'every' magi > has their own secret recipe. Witches of old, not wiccans, lol, used > henbane, belladonna, anointments. usually called 'flying ointments', yes. > You may get a vision or two without the chemicals,,,but what you are > asking for..2 way communication,,,is acheived ONLY through > psychedlics. is that because psychedelics 'mimic psychosis' and therefore divide the aggregate subject into an internal self-babbling? is this truly of benefit to the experiencer? or are you convinced that this "2-way communication" is between something valuable and the drug- addled imbiber-of-the-flesh-of-the-gods? > So DON"T let anyone fool ya or tell ya otherwise. the worst criticism would be hedonism. > Also, see my post- Magick is Chemical/DMT- to equate magic with chemicals is a rough equivalent to equating recordings with that which is recorded. the contents of experience, influenced by the condition of the mechanism, are simply not as important as the actual fact of the change associated with the spell where magic is concerned. the hazard is in attributing all volitional power to the catalyzing agent, rather than to the mage hirself. isolating locus of magical change at the chemical would be like saying that the wand is the most important tool. while it may be the most apparent, its role as one of many magical Actors is one as directed as any other. this is also the case for that imbibed at the direction of the occultist. intention and actuality are the indicators of magic's cause, the process too often mistaken for the result. nagasiva