Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick Subject: Re: Arabic Magick References: <3ef15c63.722801@trialnews.peoplepc.com> <3EF103B7.B451C0F8@pacbell.net> <3ef24f4b.842721@trialnews.peoplepc.com> <3EF33AE7.96A6D13A@pacbell.net> <3ef3e8eb.18101727@trialnews.peoplepc.com> From: haramulla Reply-To: spam@luckymojo.com User-Agent: nn/6.6.0 Lines: 62 Message-ID: <3UvKa.5649$%3.276291@typhoon.sonic.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 05:54:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1056606847 208.201.242.18 (Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:54:07 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:54:07 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:40205 alt.magick:350257 50030625 viii om Pisces-Age-Y2006 assalam alaykum, my kin. Gnomedplume@aol.com (Gnome d Plume): #># **** Obviously they are not "European" pseudo Arabian versions ala #># *Vytheck* or *Hadji Baba..* Picatrix (*The Aim of the Sage*) was #># translated directly from the Arabic into modern German and more #># recently (half of it) into modern English.**** I have been peering over the contents of the first half of that text (Picatrix) lately and I notice that the author seems to be attempting to portray magic for purpose of religious conversion. that is, he attempts to catalogue the astrological amulet construct methods merely in order to explain a Neoplatonic metaphysics with Allah at its pyramidal top shaking his head "no" at the practice of magic excepting that it leads one to engage piety and attain to wisdom. while it does contain (some in this first half, apparently much more in the latter which I have not yet seen) methods for physical influences toward materialistic ends, these are cast in a shadow of negativity in comparison to transcending materialism and getting with the mystical programme. the parallels with the tradition of Hermetic magic are very interesting. Gnomedplume@aol.com (Gnome d Plume): # ****Picatrix is the great grandaddy of most European clavicules. It # is alleged to be 9th century in the original and 13th century in the # first European versions. See Dame Francis Yates' *Giordano Bruno and # the Hermetic Tradition.* See also Lynn Thorndike's *History of Magic # and Experimental Science.* Medieval Muslim authors did write about # magick but "carefully." (of course this applies to European writers # also.) **** that ('carefully') is something I've been attempting to parse: did they do so in a kind of disdainful or recommending-against manner so as to be able to get their material seen at all (quite possible), or were they really (comparable to some academics of magic *like Thorndike*!) downplaying magic's efficacy for the purpose of examining something else they considered much more important (in the case of the author of Picatrix, the worship of Allah and attainment of wisdom; in the case of Thorndike, at least in his less extensive but apparently relatable "The Place of Magic in the Intellectual History of Europe", the apprehension of the history and principles of *science*). #># **** Idries Shah is an Afghani #># Sufi and Mamdouh Al Daye is not doing a Lobsang Ramptha act. He was #># born in the Middle East and puts Arabic on his facing pages. As for #># dates I could certainly give them because I have all the books #># mentioned in my library---but given title and author most people don't #># demand dates--unless they are in a bad mood or grading term papers.**** Shah's "Oriental Magic" (mentioned elsewhere in this thread methinks) has an elaborated Sufi theurgy comparable to many other religious magical systems (overseen by the God and a kind of byproduct of the mystical path), as well as a partial survey of occultism worldwide. peace be with you, haramulla