Path: typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.religion.wicca,alt.pagan.magick,alt.divination,alt.christnet.ethics Followup-To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.religion.wicca,alt.pagan.magick,alt.divination,alt.christnet.ethics,alt.tarot Subject: Christian Magic and Divination From: nocTifer Reply-To: spam@luckymojo.com User-Agent: nn/6.6.0 Lines: 110 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 06:10:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.201.242.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1059631800 208.201.242.18 (Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:10:00 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:10:00 PDT Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:41003 alt.magick:353162 alt.religion.wicca:724536 alt.pagan.magick:38295 alt.divination:21875 alt.christnet.ethics:29531 Orig-To: TarotL@yahoogroups.com Orig-Subject: [TarotL] Christian Card Reading 50030730 viii om Happy Nulatix! > I have really enjoyed the conversation on Crowley. Crowley is perhaps not the best source for the Christian occultist (since his path tends towards the transcendant of and blasphemous to strict Christian concepts and formulae). > I am having a difficult time myself studying him and > I needed some input. When I use the deck I get great > readings. I am at a crossroads though and I do not > know what to do.... How does Christianity fit in with > reading cards? Does it? .... recommendation better to ask the particular authorities of whatever religion you may accept as regards how it fits with any particular thing. religions are odd about things like sex, food, worship, and magic, sometimes associating moral qualities with these things and their specific content. asking this question within a forum on tarot will necessarily contain a variety of particular or generality of vague responses, especially as a particular deck is not included in the query. generally a good number of Christians will eshew the symbolism and theory associated with Tarot on account of its eclectic iconography and questionable foundation (depends on the deck of course). reading cards may well be accepted by Christians when they are using ordinary playing cards (especially those who do not have proscriptions against gambling or gaming) or when using some cartomantic or fortune-telling cards such as the LeNormand or Salon cards popularized in Europe and available in a variety of art and deck styles. the usual objection to the reading of cards is based on some scriptural, ecclesiastic, or cosmological prohibition that characterizes the reading as contravening limitations of knowledge set by the divine (e.g. prognostication) otherwise only available to prophets; or consorting with questionable or downright nefarious agents (e.g. The Devil, demons, or merely miscellaneous spirits) whose counsel is liable to lead the faithful away from reliable sources of spiritual authority (e.g. the Lord Jesus Christ, the Church, the clergy, etc.). christianity beyond the limitations of church and scripture that might be brought to bear against the practice of card reading, there are no absolute restrictions separating the Christian from the activity. not only are there Christian witches and mages who make their occult interests and studies known far and wide, going so far as to establish forums where Christian magic and divination may be discussed and explored without intrusion or criticism, the Synoptic Gospels display a formula which may be used for solitary self-initiation as an elementary baptismal sequence demonstrated by the Christ. additional information on this self-initiation may be found within the following set of files investigating and founding a Christian Gospel Initiation Formula for all to use: http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/gnostik/xtianmgk.rite.1 http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/gnostik/xtianmgk.rite.2 http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/gnostik/xtianmgk.rite.3 with supplementary files discussing the character of Christian magic that may in some ways apply to that of Christian divination. http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/gnostik/xtianmgk.txt1 http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/gnostik/xtianmgk.txt2 http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/gnostik/xtianmgk.txt3 http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/gnostik/xtianmgk.txt4 http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/gnostik/xtianmgk.invdmns commentary on non-Tarot-related items welcomed off-list. standards the immediate interest to the Christian should be the connection with whatever spiritual authority one accepts as legitimate and with whom one is working (e.g. the Christ, Mary, Yahweh, Michael, etc.). therefore the cards one selects and one's methods of employing them should sustain and should not in any way compromise this connection. this is as true for *any* religious as for the Christian, though some discover within their path a specific religious guide whereby divination or consulting regarding the future or spiritual insight ought to be instructed (Thoth amongst Egyptomaniacs, for example :>). beyond this, the use of Tarot or any system of divination ought not interfere with whatever aims or objectives are presumed as part of the religious path if one is to remain firmly on that religious trajectory and include its use. comments welcome. nocTifer nagasiva@luckymojo.com